Nitpick With Impunity: Goat Edition

[Sun]

Ramsay allowing Asha - a valuable hostage to makeup for the one he ruined - to get away makes absolutely no sense. Asha not trying to kill Ramsay when she had the chance makes even less sense. The whole Dreadfort sequence was very very weak.

The IB backing Stannis at this juncture makes absolutely no sense. I went into my reasoning in the Stannis thread so I won't go through it again here.

[Jamie Lannister]

In the books, Jaime decided to help Tyrion on his own, in the show, Tyrion and even Bronn are chiding him.

They really don't like Jaime, I get it.

I don't think that's fair. Jaime can't do a thing for Tyrion in the books until the final chapter, and presumably that's going to play out in the same way. That he's struggled a bit with how exactly he can help his brother before then isn't a bad deviation IMO, especially since offering to step down from the KG if Tyrion's life is spared was of his own volition.

Ramsay and Asha's showdown was lame. It started off decent and the combat choreography was fine, but holy shit they dropped the ball at the end. Shirtless Ramsay effortlessly butchers a bunch of the Ironborn's finest killers, then chases off Asha by very slowing preparing to... open a dog cage. Bullshit. There is no way save for the grace of plot that he walked out of that room as the winner.

[ladyinblack]

No Giant of a Lannister lines & it is used so much in the books-perfect for TV

Think Asha is so poorly cast- 1 of my favorite book characters

No way she could get to Dreadfort. Why? Just stupid & Asha wasn't. She & her storyline constantly evolve in the books

Brilliant acting & camera work in this ep. Pretty damn good this week

[Milcov]

People seriously think that was whitewashing? It was set-up. In the books Dany is paying goatherders for weeks before Drogon kills the child. It's showing how Drogon hunts in order to establish what will happen when human remains are brought in to everyone's surprise. Also Dany hasn't really been whitewashed at all, she came out of that discussion with Hizdahr very poorly.

[Phil Sand]

• Finally, what is the leaving the Mountain's role as the Crown's champion up in the air? For one thing, it creates a bit of a plot hole. Tywin knows declaring the Mountain as the Crown's champion is a very bad idea. However, having Cersei declare him the Crown's champion in public is just vintage Cersei. She picks the most feared fighter in all of Westeros, going for the most powerful option on the table, but missing the not at all hidden implications damages her cause and creates another mess for Tywin to clean up.

I really did like this episode, but this is a nitpick thread.

For the show they need to build up the mountain as a character to be feared as the promo for episode 7 shows, also it will be a more intense scene when we learn the mountain is the crowns champion, then cut to Oberyn walking into Tyrions chamber and declaring himself.

[Mark Antony]

People seriously think that was whitewashing? It was set-up. In the books Dany is paying goatherders for weeks before Drogon kills the child. It's showing how Drogon hunts in order to establish what will happen when human remains are brought in to everyone's surprise. Also Dany hasn't really been whitewashed at all, she came out of that discussion with Hizdahr very poorly.

Yup genuinely flabbergasted people are saying this ep whitewashed Dany.

[Le Cygne]

I don't think that's fair. Jaime can't do a thing for Tyrion in the books until the final chapter, and presumably that's going to play out in the same way. That he's struggled a bit with how exactly he can help his brother before then isn't a bad deviation IMO, especially since offering to step down from the KG if Tyrion's life is spared was of his own volition.

But he didn't need to be chided, he waited for his chance and then he just did it, and Tyrion was very grateful. That was actually better drama, it set up what was to come much better.

They have to make everyone who may be compared in any way to Tyrion less of a man. They did the same with the Hound, because Sansa likes him. I think Jorah is up next, who knows what they will do to make him worse.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

Yup genuinely flabbergasted people are saying this ep whitewashed Dany.

Sure we are flabbergasted, i mean it is not like her fans are being wilfully blind right? :rolleyes:

[Greywolf2375]

I got one real big nitpick with this episode. That fucking goat. RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!!! If the show doesnt eventually have that guy come back with the bones of his kid, im going to riot. Seriously. Im really mad about that. Snapping mad. Its incredibly important that the dragons nom on a human. Its the whole reason Dany locks up her dragons come on! :tantrum: Fix it, show! FIX. IT.

Why? While it would have an impact, it will be far more impactful to see her get used to the goats and then be presented the childs bones.

- the IronBorn turning into a large group of Ser Robin's and running away bravely.

- while it fits in character to some point, the fact that Stannis does nothing at the Iron Bank fell flat

Drogon not burning the child is just the usual Dany-whitewashing, but I don't want to complain about that, because the Hizdahr-scene was great and showed that the world is not so black and white as Dany sees it.

that's an overreaction. If they take it out completely, fine, but to have that be the first time we see them breathe like that would have a fraction of the impact if they let it grow with the dragons becoming more powerful and wild & then burn a child.

[Mark Antony]

Sure we are flabbergasted, i mean it is not like her fans are being wilfully blind right? :rolleyes:

I mean I like Dany as a character I'm not some weird Dany fanboy or anything though ;) and I do agree she has been whitewashed in the past but I just didn't see that last night at all.

[Phil Sand]

i wonder how did Ramsay could fight against the ironborn. he's known to be fierce, but a bad fighter... but he showed some moves over there. he should have died in the first minute :P specially with no armor.

also the letter sent to asha its a joke. it's not in skin and he signs Ramsay SNOW, Lord of the Dreadfort and Warden of the North, which he's neither. also the scene is pointless and geographicaly near to impossible

Ramsay is never shown to be a bad fighter he is shown to be a reckless and fierce fighter with no technical aspect more of a man in rage just swinging his sword.

[Dofs]

-Asha's attack on Dreadfort. Wow, what a useless and stupid storyline.

-No 'Giant of Lannister', I was waiting, waiting for it... and got nothing.

-I do question that Iron Bank would give Stannis money based on what Davos had said. I would definitely not give them my money. What if Tywin decides to attack Stannis and kill him tomorrow? How Stannis would have stopped that?

-Jaime's puppy eyes. Ugh. If I never knew that this is Jaime in the show, I would have never recognized him.

[Le Cygne]

Jaime's puppy eyes? I couldn't even hear what was being said for Tyrion's puppy eyes every other frame.

I know, the big reveal next episode: Jorah is Drogon's goat pusher. He gave him a little and then a little more, and before long, insatiable desire for goat.

[David Selig]

Asha at Dreadfort is the best example for a total failure in writing a storyline. The Ironborn, known as the strongest warriors of Westeros, not fearing any battle even if they are outnumbered...getting jimjams because an unarmoured bastard nutjob releases some dogs.

I hope there will be something in Moat Cailin that might rescue the whole plot.

This so much.

They travelled what, 2000 miles to get there and save Theon, and ran away from a few dogs even though they were wearing armor. Just so stupid.

The way Tywin is treating Mace is ridiculous. Mace can overthrow the Lannisters any time he wants, yet Tywin treats him like a servant and he accepts it.

[Fat Trell]

Asha was terrible. No two ways about it. This seems like a plot that was introduced for virtually no reason other than to remind us Asha is a thing.

Old Man Roose needs his sleep. He can't be bothered by trivial things like invasions of his castle.

We now know why Balon was scared to invade the Westerlands though. Way too many hounds over there.

My man Mace...why HBO, why? The slander is borderline demonic imo. Let him live.

I wish they would have had the court laugh at Tyrion. That is such a pivotal moment in the books. Was very keen insight into Tyrion as a man. Without the humiliation of having his time in KL come full circle(going from making others the object of derision, to being the laughing stock) I don't think he would have had such an angry outburst.

But TV Tyrion hasn't been laughed at as often as Book Tyrion, so that makes sense. Still an excellent scene. Maybe the best the show has done.

[Dofs]

Jaime's puppy eyes? I couldn't even hear what was being said for Tyrion's puppy eyes every other frame.

That too, but Tyrion redeemed himself in the end. Jaime did not, unfortunately.

[Phil Sand]

This so much.

They travelled what, 2000 miles to get there and save Theon, and ran away from a few dogs even though they were wearing armor. Just so stupid.

The way Tywin is treating Mace is ridiculous. Mace can overthrow the Lannisters any time he wants, yet Tywin treats him like a servant and he accepts it.

it was a poor scene for the iron born but the scene was there too show that theon had truly become reek.

[Le Cygne]

That too, but Tyrion redeemed himself in the end. Jaime did not, unfortunately.

By murdering Shae? Her continued existence was going to bring down the seven kingdoms, for sure.

[David Selig]

-I do question that Iron Bank would give Stannis money based on what Davos had said. I would definitely not give them my money. What if Tywin decides to attack Stannis and kill him tomorrow? How Stannis would have stopped that?

Yeah, it was a nice sounding speech, but it didn't make much sense. No sensible banker would risk money on such a long shot when those in KL continue to pay the interest on the IB loans. What if Tywin lives another 10 years and Tommen grows up to be a decent king? That's way more likely than Stannis winning the war from his current position. or what if Tywin's army just crushes Stannis in a month? No matter how much money the IB gives him, the Lannister - Tyrell will still have a huge advantage in numbers.

[Fat Trell]

Also the Iron Bank would have never thrown in with Stannis at this point, imo.

Tywin is alive. Despite all his personal failings and dickishness, he is viewed as reliable. Tywin's whole image is about competence; ruthless, bitter competence. The idea that he wouldn't have found a way to pay the IT debts(heh) is underminding. Even with the ridiculous dry gold mines.

Even ignoring Tywin though, Stannis is a losing horse at this point. No heartfelt speech from Davos about how great a guy Stann is should have changed the mind's of these near fanatical bankers.