Tormund GiantsMANE Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 It felt very Simpsons-esque to me. I half expected Ramsay to struggle unlocking the gate only to have Yara and her comrades provide assistance. "No, you have push the key the whole way back before you start to turn it...". Followed, of course, by the Monty Python-esque fleeing. "We can't risk another frontal assault. That dog's dynamite!" The plan isn't to murder Ramsay Snow and sneak away in the dead of night. The plan is to rescue Theon. For something that never happened in the story people sure have a firm grasp on why it happened and what it was setting up. This scene show's Theon's full Reek transformation. In the books he doesn't want to change his clothes and knows he's to be Ramsay's pet, but we never read or even consider that he would fight (ok Bite) his own sister to stay in the kennels because that's just how twisted and warped his mind is now. Him giving Reek a bath in their next scene is the icing on the cake. I also think that now Yara/Asha will be able to focus on the family she has (or doesn't have) back home. The show exposed "theon's favorite toy" well before the books sent everyone a "piece of prince" they had to flip her arc a bit. and BTW I think most men armored or not would turn tail on a maniacal pack of mastiffs. It wasn't like Ramsay was about to loose a litter of new born toy poodles on them. They couldn't risk capture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7th-key Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I think too, they cut a scene of Ramsay butchering his playmate. I'm glad they took it out. I has been discussed enough, nevertheless the gratuitous sexual violence is getting on my stomach. Yes, there's Theon, Varys and Unsullied, but those are plot relevant and defining for major characters (for the victim). Also (except for Theon) we are only told of those in the aftermath and never see it 'live'. There is a difference. I agree, the Dreadfort scene would have made more sense before the return of Roose. Also for Ramsay: getting rid of both playmates in the same ep, clear indication that he's playing with people, even when they're also sadists. I hope before he dies in a terrible way (death by wight?), someone will give him Littlefinger, in the same way LF gave people to 'particular clients'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen of Whores Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 A minor nitpick I have is that neither Tommen or Jaime were present during the meeting of the Small Council. It seems odd that the new king (who has already been told by Tywin to listen to his advisors) wouldn't be there, as well as Jaime, since they established in 3x5 that the LC of the Kingsguard does sit in on the Small Council. They wouldn't even have to say much, just be there to fill out the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miodrag Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I forgot this last week, but what the hell: that TV Cersei is fully aware of Joff's evil side makes absolutely no sense. If she is aware, then how the hell she doesn't even think of the possibility Joff was killed because of his evilness, and not because someone (Tyrion) wanted to harm her?! Especially with her love for children TV show wants to emphasize every now and then. Wouldn't her instinct and her love for the other two kids make her instinctively at least question Tyrion's guilt?! In the books everything makes sense because she's obsessed with herself, as usual, and she's not to be bothered with possible faults her children (Joff) may have. In the show, however, she jumps between self-aware insightful individual and delusional egomaniac, and vice versa, with no explanation and in an instant, just as the writers need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggerseiuri Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 What? I thought it was really well done, though Charles Dance is amazing. I think the writers are doing exactly what I thought as far as making Tyrion do a complete 180 into the dark, and I think Shae was the straw that broke the camel's back. That's why it felt shocking or overacted. That's not Peter's fault, it's a writing decision. Killing Shae really wasnt a 180 in the book. Tyrion is gray. Someone put it best on these very forums that once you take him away from the absolutely evil and mad characters that surround him in KL, you see how cruel, snobbish, and bitter he really is. And honestly saving KL, marrying Sansa, fighting at the Blackwater, it's all just an attempt to make up for his being a dwarf. He tries and tries to get people on his side so the maybe they won't despise him anymore but nothing can change it. Altruism with ulterior motives isn't actually altruistic, and after the plan to curry the favor of KL, the mountain clans, Dorne, etc fails he is left as he has always been- a bitter man unopposed to horrible acts. Not that he's all bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggerseiuri Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 This is really a nitpick that crosses most episodes but I'm putting it here anyway: Peter Dinklage needs a damn haircut (I realize Tyrion's been in prison.) It kept distracting me in his courtroom scenes that he kept tilting his head down and peeking through curls straggling down his forehead. Some highlights wouldn't hurt, either. Aren't Lannisters supposed to be blonde? At least they put wigs of the right color on Lena Headey and Emilia Clarke, though their darkass eyebrows annoy me in every scene they're in.Preach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Followed, of course, by the Monty Python-esque fleeing. "We can't risk another frontal assault. That dog's dynamite!" Perfect, now the scene makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggerseiuri Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Folks nitpicking the goat scene (And I know I'm super late so my comment may fall on deaf ears),it was clearly a tease for a bigger "reveal" down the road. D&D like messing with book readers, so when you see the goat, the shepheard, the boy and drogon it's almost automatic. You know what's coming, so much that you disregard certain small details. In this ep the goat hearder is the first "supplicant" (somehow even befor the noble Hizadr)....Dany is told there are roughly 200 hundred more. In the book the goat header who lost his child was the last of the supplicants and waited until it was only him and Dany and her council, before he laid out the bones of his child. They're (hbo/writers) are just building it up for us. We'll prolly see a coupla more shepheards making claims (especially seeing how open handed the queen was about reparations) during future scenes with Hizzy trying to get the pits open. They may even have Dany do a similar "about face" as she did when Hizaroo asked for his dad's body. I imagine a scene similar to the book where she's mildly put off by or suspicious of all the claims she's been getting and then gets presented with the remains of a child. It will show another tough decisions Dany has to make during her "pre-queens". It's simple to pay 3x the market value for goats (especially from the coffers of a conquered city), but her choices after that "reveal" end up having much more gravity.I will forever love you for introducing me to the term "pre-queens". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Trell Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I forgot this last week, but what the hell: that TV Cersei is fully aware of Joff's evil side makes absolutely no sense. If she is aware, then how the hell she doesn't even think of the possibility Joff was killed because of his evilness, and not because someone (Tyrion) wanted to harm her?! Especially with her love for children TV show wants to emphasize every now and then. Wouldn't her instinct and her love for the other two kids make her instinctively at least question Tyrion's guilt?! In the books everything makes sense because she's obsessed with herself, as usual, and she's not to be bothered with possible faults her children (Joff) may have. In the show, however, she jumps between self-aware insightful individual and delusional egomaniac, and vice versa, with no explanation and in an instant, just as the writers need it. I agree. It speaks to a larger issue in my opinion; the show changes characterization and small events to such a point that when they revert to the book storyline it seems illogical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnysd Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Asha at Dreadfort is the best example for a total failure in writing a storyline. The Ironborn, known as the strongest warriors of Westeros, not fearing any battle even if they are outnumbered...getting jimjams because an unarmoured bastard nutjob releases some dogs. I hope there will be something in Moat Cailin that might rescue the whole plot. Wow. Are people still thinking they fled the dogs? They left because Theon was no longer worth any iron price to get back. The scene was clunky and poorly edited, but it was there to show how far Theon truly is, and to set up the Kingsmoot for next season. Interestingly. most unsullied seemed to get the scene, book readers tend not to. My nitpick, is that Davos words should have been Stannis. Would have been a much better scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Then why show the dogs just before that? The dogs were the reason the price would be paid. The dogs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidviper Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Killing Shae really wasnt a 180 in the book. Tyrion is gray. Someone put it best on these very forums that once you take him away from the absolutely evil and mad characters that surround him in KL, you see how cruel, snobbish, and bitter he really is. And honestly saving KL, marrying Sansa, fighting at the Blackwater, it's all just an attempt to make up for his being a dwarf. He tries and tries to get people on his side so the maybe they won't despise him anymore but nothing can change it. Altruism with ulterior motives isn't actually altruistic, and after the plan to curry the favor of KL, the mountain clans, Dorne, etc fails he is left as he has always been- a bitter man unopposed to horrible acts. Not that he's all bad. That's true, I was speaking only about the show in my post, but I think we're going to see more of Book!Tyrion starting with what we just saw in the trial. In a way this Tyrion is better to me because I think it'd be cool to see someone who has held his anger/bitterness in and used wit/intelligence as armor come completely undone. I think it makes for a really good character arc. I like that better than "bitter guy with questionable motives gets angry and does horrible acts, and continues to be bitter with questionable motives." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Wow. Are people still thinking they fled the dogs? They left because Theon was no longer worth any iron price to get back. The scene was clunky and poorly edited, but it was there to show how far Theon truly is, and to set up the Kingsmoot for next season. Interestingly. most unsullied seemed to get the scene, book readers tend not to. My nitpick, is that Davos words should have been Stannis. Would have been a much better scene. I agree but the scene was still quite illogical. To me, that whole scene was just an elaborate, illogical way to show the audience that Theon is becoming Reek in truth. In actuality, the Iron Men had enough numbers to simply kill the Boltons, the dogs, and "rescue" Theon whether he wanted to go or not. Then they could go about getting Theon back to his old self (or as close as he'll ever get again) after they got him free of Ramsey's clutches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 The results are in. But it was in a podcast, which I refuse to listen to. So, no idea what the results were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miodrag Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Wow. Are people still thinking they fled the dogs? They left because Theon was no longer worth any iron price to get back. The scene was clunky and poorly edited, but it was there to show how far Theon truly is, and to set up the Kingsmoot for next season. Interestingly. most unsullied seemed to get the scene, book readers tend not to. "Give me my brother, and no more of you men will die." That's the last thing Yara says before Ramsay starts releasing the hounds. Next thing we see, she's running away into the boat. Could you then, please, explain in what exact moment did Yara realize Theon isn't worth it - before the hounds are to be released, or after? I mean, if unsullied got it, it's probably very obvious, so I guess you'll explain it easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7th-key Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 IronBorn heading back to the ship, rowing song:Who let the dogs out? woof, woof, woof! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eumaies Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 This is really a nitpick that crosses most episodes but I'm putting it here anyway: Peter Dinklage needs a damn haircut (I realize Tyrion's been in prison.) It kept distracting me in his courtroom scenes that he kept tilting his head down and peeking through curls straggling down his forehead. Some highlights wouldn't hurt, either. Aren't Lannisters supposed to be blonde? At least they put wigs of the right color on Lena Headey and Emilia Clarke, though their darkass eyebrows annoy me in every scene they're in. Who say Tyrion is a Lannister? Not that his hair should be brown, regardless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 The Lannisters in the show have different shades of blonde but at least keep one wig (for Tyrion and Cersei) and stick with it. Their haircolor changes by the season. Charles Dance is of course greying and NCW can't really help it that his hair gets darker the shorter it is, but at least get the wigs right for those who aren't naturally blonde. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petyr Patter Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Who say Tyrion is a Lannister? Not that his hair should be brown, regardless... Joanna, duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eumaies Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Joanna, duh. Yeah, but he wouldn't necessarily get her hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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