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juanml82

[BOOK SPOILERS] Hizdahr

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This guy is gonna marry and fuck the woman who crucified his father.



Holy shit.



I mean, it does give him a motive to poison her, if he was indeed the one behind it. But still, he's going to "court" her, negotiate with her, marry her, get a hard on and fuck her in a completely non rape fashion.


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At least it gave some humanity to the crucifictions that the books failed to provide. It also provided some background to his character that gives him more complexity than I thought the show would allow him to have. I liked it! :)


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That's assuming all of it wasn't [censored].



His father may have directly ordered the children crucifyings himself.



However, talk is cheap and nothing prevents him from playing Daeny with the idea he was a "good" slaver who didn't treat his slaves any worse than the Smallfolk in Westeros.



History has shown that RL slavers have a well-known habit of talking about how the abuse of slaves was the actions of a small-minority.



Which, of course, is BS but serves their narrative.


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At least it gave some humanity to the crucifictions that the books failed to provide. It also provided some background to his character that gives him more complexity than I thought the show would allow him to have. I liked it! :)

Yeah he's already a more complex character than in the books. I hope it doesn't turn out to be LIES ALL ALONG!! and we get another Xaroesque cartoon villain.

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Yeah he's already a more complex character than in the books. I hope it doesn't turn out to be LIES ALL ALONG!! and we get another Xaroesque cartoon villain.

I dunno, the guy is the political leader of a faction of terrorists who exists for the purposes of bringing back slavery.

In a kind of bizarre way, he's the head of the KKK.

You know, despite being a black man.

Can't really make that NOT a cartoon.

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I never liked him in the books, but already he's more sympathetic to me. I kinda wish they spent those eight minutes that were cut short this episode to give some more time to Meereen. They need to set up her council members like Shavepate and Brown Ben Plumm, maybe the green grace, if they're keeping them at all. It'll be nice to show Dany trying to assimilate to Meereen and maybe shut down the fighting pits, so Hizdahr can come in again to argue for them reopening.


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I dunno, the guy is the political leader of a faction of terrorists who exists for the purposes of bringing back slavery.

In a kind of bizarre way, he's the head of the KKK.

You know, despite being a black man.

Can't really make that NOT a cartoon.

In the books, maybe - and I mean maybe, it's far from confirmed.

In the show, who knows what they'll change. In fact they'll probably make him definitely and obviously the leader of the Sons of the Harpy.

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In the books, maybe - and I mean maybe, it's far from confirmed.

In the show, who knows what they'll change. In fact they'll probably make him definitely and obviously the leader of the Sons of the Harpy.

He doesn't have to be the leader of the SoH to be "their guy." It is, however, crucial to Daeny's decision that marrying Hidzahr brings the violence to an end.

So I'll be interested in seeing where they go with it. It's about time we've seen a suitable challenge for Daeny, though.

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I'm totally rooting show!Hizdahr over Dany. It's good to finally see somebody standing against Dany and not being cartoon villain.


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I'm totally rooting show!Hizdahr over Dany. It's good to finally see somebody standing against Dany and not being cartoon villain.

I hope they make the slave masters as nuanced as the Dothraki. Basically, these are REALLY horrible [censored] people but they have their reasons.

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I liked his scene with Dany, I think it nicely introduced the "you might have good intentions, but the world is not just as black and white and as easy and straightforward as you want it to be" lesson that Dany is going to get in Meereen.


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Well when you come to a culture in which slavery is widely integrated and practiced (like ancient Rome and Egypt in RL) it's useless to tell them it's bad because they don't know anything else. It's their way of life and you have come to change it (violently I must add). Nobody will tolerate this. And it would be a bed assumption if you think that there are no good or brilliant people living in "slaver" cultures.


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Well when you come to a culture in which slavery is widely integrated and practiced (like ancient Rome and Egypt in RL) it's useless to tell them it's bad because they don't know anything else. It's their way of life and you have come to change it (violently I must add). Nobody will tolerate this. And it would be a bed assumption if you think that there are no good or brilliant people living in "slaver" cultures.

This is an argument made by some but wrong. The Romans, in particular, were well aware their slaves hated them and would kill them if they had the chance. It was a law that slaves could only give testimony under torture because it was assumed any slave would give false witness if it meant sticking it to a Roman. Likewise, freed slaves couldn't serve in the military because they assumed no slave would ever want to help a Roman.

The Confederacy had similar beliefs about their slaves but spent the next century after its fall trying to pretend it wasn't like that.

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I hope they make the slave masters as nuanced as the Dothraki. Basically, these are REALLY horrible [censored] people but they have their reasons.

Really? Name one dothraki who ever spoke out against rape, cruelty or asked for some form of mercy, even the ones that follow Dany are so devoid of personality that you can't tell what they would do if she wasn't there....

I do agree that Hizdhar has the potential to be much more nuanced than the books, but lets not talk about the portrait of the dothraki as (show or books) as a good example...

Also, what reason do the dothraki have for being so horrible? The only reason I can think is because Martin wanted a foil for Dany in AGOT, but Martin never gives an lore reason why they are like that...

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Really? Name one dothraki who ever spoke out against rape, cruelty or asked for some form of mercy, even the ones that follow Dany are so devoid of personality that you can't tell what they would do if she wasn't there....

I do agree that Hizdhar has the potential to be much more nuanced than the books, but lets not talk about the portrait of the dothraki as (show or books) as a good example...

Also, what reason do the dothraki have for being so horrible?

I'm utterly confused by your question. Why would the Dothraki speak out against rape or cruelty if they're horrible people?

If you mean for reasons, because the Dothraki culture is all about being the biggest baddest warriors around. You get their mindset even if it means they are actually just a bunch of bullies torturing and murdering people for plunder.

Just like Westeros' knights and Lords system is complete [censored] and evil but you have people like Ned Stark who think it's actually a good one. There's a rationale even if its nonsensical from the outside.

In RL, every slave holding society is one of exploitation, torture, and (historically) rape so the Mereen are going to be evil no matter what but you might be able to see how they don't think themselves that way.

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I liked his scene with Dany, I think it nicely introduced the "you might have good intentions, but the world is not just as black and white and as easy and straightforward as you want it to be" lesson that Dany is going to get in Meereen.

i_agree.jpg

At least it gave some humanity to the crucifictions that the books failed to provide.

It's not openly stated in the books, but when you pick 163 random noblemen to be crucified without a trial, of course there are going to be innocents among them.

I dunno, the guy is the political leader of a faction of terrorists who exists for the purposes of bringing back slavery.

In a kind of bizarre way, he's the head of the KKK.

You know, despite being a black man.

Can't really make that NOT a cartoon.

Of course you can. You just failed to abstract from Daenerys' POV and her perception of the Sons of the Harpy.

From their perspective, she's a tyrant who sacked their city, cruelly executed random people including innocents and will bring them nothing but doom. They are too few to fight her in battle, so they fight her the only way they can, by attacking individuals from the shadows.

They stopped their killing, once they realized that Daenerys wasn't just mad and cruel (when she refused to kill her hostages), but that she could be reasoned with and agreed to marry Hizdhar.

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Just like Westeros' knights and Lords system is complete [censored] and evil but you have people like Ned Stark who think it's actually a good one.

There's a rationale even if its nonsensical from the outside.

Name one dothraki who's "different" like Ned was different from the rest of Westeros, or like Asha/The Reader is diferent from the ironborn

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They stopped their killing, once they realized that Daenerys wasn't just mad and cruel (when she refused to kill her hostages), but that she could be reasoned with and agreed to marry Hizdhar.

That's only if the Shavepate theory is true. They could well have poisoned her.

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I liked his scene with Dany, I think it nicely introduced the "you might have good intentions, but the world is not just as black and white and as easy and straightforward as you want it to be" lesson that Dany is going to get in Meereen.

It does, Hizzy was probably lying through his teeth but it does give depth to his character.

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Name one dothraki who's "different" like Ned was different from the rest of Westeros, or like Asha/The Reader is diferent from the ironborn

You realize my point is the Dothraki are slavers, rapists, and murderers right?

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