Nictarion Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Well when you come to a culture in which slavery is widely integrated and practiced (like ancient Rome and Egypt in RL) it's useless to tell them it's bad because they don't know anything else. It's their way of life and you have come to change it (violently I must add). Nobody will tolerate this. And it would be a bed assumption if you think that there are no good or brilliant people living in "slaver" cultures. This would be true if Slavers Bay existed in a vacuum, but it doesn't. Braavos is part of Essos after all, "not knowing any better" isn't an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Also, Aristotle spoke in favor of slavery because there was a widespread anti-slavery movement even then. As Archer from FX's best cartoon show says, "[Why do people enslave] Because it's free labor."They do it because it makes them rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan the Man Baratheon Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Hizzy was good, like him more than in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaeronSnow Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I hope they make the slave masters as nuanced as the Dothraki. Basically, these are REALLY horrible [censored] people but they have their reasons. Are you being sarcastic in this quote? You realize my point is the Dothraki are slavers, rapists, and murderers right? Yes, that's my point, they are also cartoon villains and you can't use as a standard on how to properly write "nuanced" cultures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igrewupinKL Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 The most important question, why is Hizdahr speaking in an English accent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Kidney Pie Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 They didn't just cut out the Fighting Pits.. Did they?That was Hizdahr's reason for (repeatedly) coming the see Dany in the books.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I like him less conceptually. Hizdahr's Meereenese patrician cut out of the same cloth as a Roman pater familias in the novels works quite well for me, whereas this is a somewhat more typical character, more "likable" in the sense that he's more emotive, but that's fairly cheap and easy. Actually seems to me like there's no very great reason why Daenerys might not come to find him appealing, if that's going to be how he usually comports himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ovis alba Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 It does, Hizzy was probably lying through his teeth but it does give depth to his character. Probably he was, but I think it's not only giving depth to the character, but even more so to the whole situation and Dany. She wants to be the savior and the good and just queen and this is also shown nicely by the farmer. You can really see her joy, when she plays the mother taking care of her "children" role with her paying him more than his goats were worth, him being thankful and then she gets confronted with the fact that being just and fair is not only for those that you like and suddenly ruling is way less fun, when you're not just giving out presents. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I really liked him. Joel Fry is perfect. I applaud the show's HZL being a likable character, it avoids the books' major failing of having all Dany's adversaries depicted as risible & thoroughly unpleasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria26 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Joel Fry nailed it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Yes, that's my point, they are also cartoon villains and you can't use as a standard on how to properly write "nuanced" cultures. Most of history is filled with cartoon villains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Most of history is filled with cartoon villains. That can be attributed to the bias of those who record it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 That can be attributed to the bias of those who record it. There is no horror conceivable by humans which hasn't been perpetrated in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkash Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Just to throw my two cents before reading the thread : I really loved the way Joel Fry acted Hizdar. I really think he can compose a really interesting character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 There is no horror conceivable by humans which hasn't been perpetrated in real life. Humanity by its very nature is nuanced. If you're gonna argue against that then I'm afraid you'll be fighting a lost cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Humanity by its very nature is nuanced. If you're gonna argue against that then I'm afraid you'll be fighting a lost cause. And the Dothraki are a clannish, family-orientated people who have strong tribal bonds. Yeah, they're a bunch of bandits but you get where they're coming from. I want to see that nuance with the Mereen who are, right now, one-dimensional evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 And the Dothraki are a clannish, family-orientated people who have strong tribal bonds. Yeah, they're a bunch of bandits but you get where they're coming from. I want to see that nuance with the Mereen who are, right now, one-dimensional evil. There is no nuance in book Dany's universe. All her opponents are as thin as the paper they're printed on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollowcrown Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Hizdahr was good, he made a good first impression as a pretty reasonable character with a sad backstory. I suppose the other nobles might put him forward as their negotiator and he gives a human face to the cartoonish slavers culture in Mereen. Also I hope Dany looks like an idiot when she spurns the Quentyn and Hizdahr because they're not as pretty as Daario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lelele Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Well, he's a lot more attractive than plain old boring book Harzoo. This guy has some sex appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollowcrown Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Well, he's a lot more attractive than plain old boring book Harzoo. This guy has some sex appeal. Really? I thought he looked pretty plain, it's clear he's not the heroic, dashing, suave Daario so yeah. I think it is important that Daario is more appealing sexually to Dany than Hizdahr....but then again book Daario was a bit of a mess cosmetically haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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