Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Impish

[Book Spoilers] Varys/Oberyn conversation

Recommended Posts

What's up with Varys nodding towards the throne to indicate what he is "pursuing" (his exact word choice)?



Perhaps he's trying to say that he serves the throne (or "the realm", as he says to Ned), but as shown it really looks for all the world like he is indicating to Oberyn that he desires the throne for himself. He of course appears to have no such designs in the book (I think it's clear he's Team Targ, which perhaps he does genuinely consider to be in the best interests of "the realm")



A precise transcription of the dialog:



Varys: Besides, the absence of desire, leaves one free to pursue other things...


Oberyn: Such as?


Varys: {Deliberately turns head to stare directly at the Iron Throne}



So what's going on here? Am I mis-reading something? How did everyone else interpret it?



Varys causally appearing to openly indicate "I want the throne" to Oberyn is just so.. weird. I don't know what to make of it.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a weird scene. I should ask some of my unsullied friends. But to me it looked like Varys wanted the throne. Very misleading.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I took it as a red herring. The show suggested that HE wants the iron throne and is a playing the game for himself....book readers know that he was referring to putting someone else on that throne.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He wants to put Aegon on the Throne. It's unambiguous, surely, if you're read the books.



For show viewers it's probably a bit confusing.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I took it as a red herring. The show suggested that HE wants the iron throne and is a playing the game for himself....book readers know that he was referring to putting someone else on that throne.

Agreed, but I think Aegon is a fake, and only Varys plot. I thought it more interesting that we have such little background on Varys. Sure we have the basics, but what of his end game. Why Aegon? It most certainly isn't for 'the good of the realm'. That's a lie I never bought into.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Varys causally appearing to openly indicate "I want the throne" to Oberyn is just so.. weird. I don't know what to make of it.

I'm guessing the writers are tired of hearing people complain about how mustache-twirly Littlefinger is, so they wanted to show an actual mustache being twirled...

Bad directing, that "nod" just kills the whole scene. Varys should have just walked forward (and to right of Prince Oberyn) so that Oberyn had to turn to keep looking at Varys, and then have the throne in the background. That way, we (the audience) can see what's meant but it doesn't look like Varys is giving Oberyn any insight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it was foreshadowing Aegon, but I also think it was to set up a contrast between Varys and Littlefinger. After last week's episode, a lot of unsullied will be paying more attention to Littlefinger's antics in his quest for power. Varys needs to be an equal to Littlefinger, so this scene was to indicate that Varys has plans in the works as well. My interpretation at least.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was a little annoyed by that simply because I can't imagine a master of whispers like Varys tipping his hand to anyone, never mind an outsider like Oberyn. Looking back Varys' motives through the first 3 1/2 seasons have been almost a complete mystery. Then, out of nowhere he basically says he's after the Iron Throne? Very strange.



My thinking is that this was necessary to help foreshadow his assisting Tyrion. Considering Varys' testimony against Tyrion it may be a stretch for viewers to believe he would then turn around and help the little guy escape and off his old man, unless he had a farther-reaching motivation. Oh and then there's the matter of Kevan way off in the distant future ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I took it as a red herring. The show suggested that HE wants the iron throne and is a playing the game for himself....book readers know that he was referring to putting someone else on that throne.

^ :agree:

Me too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't like this scene at all. My unsullied family thought Varys wanted to be king!


Actors were fine, bad writing in my opinion


The only reason i could have for this scene is to make Varys seem more ambitious then previous seasons, so when that certain scene comes (ADWD epilogue) people won't be as surprised.



The way it was portrayed, definitely indicated that Varys wanted it, not him paving the way for a certain Egg


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was incredibly strong foreshadowing of Aegon in my opinion. Nothing more or less.

:agree:

They're also throwing in little Varys back-story hints. They mentioned how he's from Myr. I bet we're going to hear Illyrio name-dropped soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:agree:

They're also throwing in little Varys back-story hints. They mentioned how he's from Myr. I bet we're going to hear Illyrio name-dropped soon.

They said Lys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see it as another clue for Varys (or maybe Illyrio) being a Blackfyre.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I took it as a red herring. The show suggested that HE wants the iron throne and is a playing the game for himself....book readers know that he was referring to putting someone else on that throne.

He wants to put Aegon on the Throne. It's unambiguous, surely, if you're read the books.

For show viewers it's probably a bit confusing.

Agreed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually liked that tidbit insofar as it gave a little of non-brothel backstory on both characters - until it didn't. But it would have been a little bit more interesting if Oberyn had mentioned Elia and her son in a conversation with Varys, wouldn't it? Could have worked easily enough, since Oberyn was in Essos during Robert's Rebellion, explaining why he did not participate in that war.



And of course Varys should have known pretty much everything that is to be known about Oberyn, so a lot of the conversation was exposition that didn't make a lot of sense in-universe.



On the other hand, they really seem to start to move away from the 'Varys serves the Realm' thing to 'He has ulterior motives of his own'. That's a good thing, that came across well when he mentioned that he never forgets anything. They could be really hinting at stuff here that was not yet touched upon in the books as of yet...



That said, does anyone else believe that Jorah's revelation as spy is going to be by the little birds Varys is apparently going 'to send' to Meereen very soon? And if so, why the hell would Varys want to destabilize Daenerys' court if he and Illyrio intend to motivate her to march for Volantis. If they are smart, then Jorah will be contacted by an agent of Varys to convince Dany to leave Meereen, and is overheard doing this by either Dany herself or Ser Barristan...?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They finally showed some of the real Varys, the ruthless power-hungry child-mutulating one. Him persuing the throne could be read in the same way as Littlefinger, there is only a small chance LF actually ends up on it, but he has a fair chance to be the biggest power behind it, and Varys could also be going for that. Telling Oberyn his actual motive in such a clear way is strange, but with Aegon they should end up on the same side in Varys' mind. Maybe Varys was giving hints to a potential ally?



Something else, when Varys talks about Jorah Mormont betraying Dany, the camera turns to Oberyn looking very interested. Could it be the show will stall the Jorah reveal untill next season and have Quentyn deliver that news to Dany, as a means to gain her trust? The timelines wouldn't exactly add up but that never bothered the show. I do think the show will play it that Oberyn reports everything he learned in KL back to Doran, which makes Doran want to broker an alliance with Dany (in stead of the marriage contract plotpoint). Anyone thinking along the same lines? Want to know how realistic I'm being.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...