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Mrs_Darcy

[Book Spoilers?(I am not sure)] Shae's betrayal of Tyrion

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I was really surprised, when I saw the episode, that they had not changed Shae's testimony and her reasons for doing it , since they had made her a lot nicer, than in the books.


I think it will be very hard for show-viewers only to accept, that show-Shae, who genuinely loved Tyrion and who stayed even when offered a good amount of gold for leaving him and going to Essos basically sold Tyrion out.



I saw the HBO videos accompanying this episode (Inside the episode, etc. ) and they made it clear, that Shae had been somehow coerced into it by Cersei. But why did we never see this? It would have cost 2 minutes maximum in either this episode on in the last to have a scene, in which Cersei threatens Shae with torture etc. if she does not tell lies about Tyrion in the trial.



Likewise, I found it really odd, that show-Shae was willing to implicate Sansa in the murder of Joffrey, since she was quite fond of her in the show and even tried to hide the fact, that she had flowered. ( In the books was quite greedy and I therefore was not surprised, when she spoke against her especially as we later hear that Cersei had promised her a manse).


Additionally, I found it quite odd, that Shae gave her testimony wearing one of Sansa's dresses, since it made her look greedy, which is in contrast to the Shae HBO had portrayed before.



A lot of book-readers have speculated, that Shae would somehow implicate Tyrion, because she tries to save Sansa, which is also what I had assumed would happen.



What do you think about this choice in the adaption?


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Personally, I am very happy that they kept her testimony as it was (essentially, minor adjustment for changes of dialogue etc.). The part where she framed and humiliated Tyrion did not surprise me at all. Not only is show Shae at this point very frustrated and hurt because of how Tyrion treated her during season 3 (hell hath no fury like a woman scorned), but the nervous looks she gave make me believe that she was, at least in part, coerced into testifying. Giving her Sansa's wardrobe was probably part of the "reward". We do know for a fact that Tywin had ordered to have her brought to the Tower of the Hand, so there's where it might have happened. I agree, though, that a minute or two explaining what exactly happened might be a good idea.



As for her testimony against Sansa: I have no idea how they are going to explain that (if at all). That's about the only gripe I had with the trial in the show.


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As I said here (#15), Tyrion won't kill Shae, she will be Tywins "Where do whores go?" line is directed at.

Why would Tyrion not kill Shae?

Seriously.

Game of Thrones is only a success because they have sudden deaths of likable characters.

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Why would Tyrion not kill Shae?

Seriously.

Game of Thrones is only a success because they have sudden deaths of likable characters.

shae's likeable? Every person i've seen talk about her says she's annoying.

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I used to like her when she was protecting Sansa. Then came season 3 and i've hated her ever since.


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Why would Tyrion not kill Shae?

Seriously.

Game of Thrones is only a success because they have sudden deaths of likable characters.

Well I do give my reason in that thread.....as I said.....but if as you say "Game of Thrones is only a success because they have sudden deaths of likable characters." Then I would be pretty certain they really could be called out on not giving a shit at all about the books and start nocking off charaecter when they felt like and by your logic it would be the "best show ever!" right?

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Personally, I am very happy that they kept her testimony as it was (essentially, minor adjustment for changes of dialogue etc.). The part where she framed and humiliated Tyrion did not surprise me at all. Not only is show Shae at this point very frustrated and hurt because of how Tyrion treated her during season 3 (hell hath no fury like a woman scorned), but the nervous looks she gave make me believe that she was, at least in part, coerced into testifying. Giving her Sansa's wardrobe was probably part of the "reward". We do know for a fact that Tywin had ordered to have her brought to the Tower of the Hand, so there's where it might have happened. I agree, though, that a minute or two explaining what exactly happened might be a good idea.

As for her testimony against Sansa: I have no idea how they are going to explain that (if at all). That's about the only gripe I had with the trial in the show.

I read somewhere, that even the actress playing Shae Sibel Kekilli wanted to have the part of her testimony removed, where she blamed Sansa.

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Yes, it is hard to explain why Shae suddenly turned against Sansa in such a vicious way. I could, if I have to, come up with the explanation that Sansa has all Shae wanted, at least in Shae's eyes: the status and future as Tyrion's wife, and that It was because of Sansa that Tyrion did not want Shae anymore.

But I think there is a very valid narrative reason for emphazising Sansa's alleged guilt over and over again: Sansa has to be in real danger if she gets caught, has to be a hunted fugitive, notorious in all of Westeros, totally dependent of Baelish. And maybe, if Robert Arryn dies mysteriously, her having been part of another poisoning will be warmed up by her persecutors. She might have some moral credibility left if she poisoned the evil king but even Northern lords might not protect her if she is suspected to have poisoned young Lord Arryn.

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Yes, it is hard to explain why Shae suddenly turned agaist Sansa in such a vicious way. I could, if I have to, come up with the explanation that Sansa has all Shae wanted, at least in Shae's eyes: the status and future as Tyrion's wife, and that It was beacuse of Sansa that Tyrion did not want Shae anymore.

But I think there is a very valid narrative reason for emphazising Sansa's alleged guilt over and over again: Sansa has to be in real danger if she gets caught, has to be a hunted fugitive, notorious in all of Westeros, totally dependent of Baelish. And maybe, if Robert Arryn dies mysteriously, her having been part of another poisoning will be warmed up by her persecutors. She might have some moral credibility left if she poisoned the evil king but even Northern lords might not protect her if she is suspected to have poisoned young Lord Arryn.

Well you managed to give a reasonable explanation on why TV Shae turned against Tyrion. Sansa has the name, the looks and a possible bright future ahead of her and Shae is nobody. She's just a whore from Lorath with only one name (as Varys made sure she remembers). Besides that, Tyrion started to reject her because of his marriage to Sansa and sent her away. That made Shae feel betrayed because in the TV show she seemed to genuinely love Tyrion so she decided to hurt him just as he (in her mind) hurt her by treating her as worthless whore.

Personally, I like TV Shae because the changes they made to her character will make her death more shocking for our unsullied friends.

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As I said here (#15), Tyrion won't kill Shae, she will be Tywins "Where do whores go?" line is directed at.

I don't think there is any way Tyrion's actions will be different than in the books. He even called her a lying whore in the show.

Bye Shae.

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They couldn't have had a Cersei forcing Shae to testify scene before the trial as it would have ruined the surprise of her appearance at the end.


They might have a scene next week where Cersei says Well done, we won't slit your throat and feed you to fish in Blackwater bay".



I was very glad they had her in the trial, I feared they might not. I think she will die in ep 10 (Hope so). Shae of season 3 / 4 has been mostly whining and nagging and not so nice. I think this is preparing the audience for her death.


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Shae came with Tyrion to KL.



He repeatedly told her that KL was a dangerous place, because he knew in the back of his mind Tywin's threat to hang the next whore he'd find in Tyrion's bed.



Tyrion found a way for her to serve, to go unnoticed as Sansa's handmaiden. Shae really served Tyrion, because she was the woman he still went to bed with - and she had his warnings. Several times.



Varys tried to get her away from Tyrion - after his marriage. Tyrion himself tries to get rid of her. Because he's a Lannister and he knows his father makes no idle threats at all. Tywin is rather consequent in his actions.



I don't think that Tyrion got Tywin's "I'll have her brought to the Tower of the Hand". He wanted to send her away and that's why he hurt her - we can see her crying. He wanted to send her away so she could have a life worth living. But do we know for certain these weren't but crocodile tears of a woman who is a whore?



Shae knows about Tysha. Tyrion himself told her about that part of his life. And she most definitely knows that Tysha is still a very important issue in Tyrion's life, Tysha is Tyrion's Achilles' heel.



Maybe she hoped to get a better life after all - with a Lord at her side. And Tyrion fits that. He's a Lord, he's got a powerful name, he's got the money, he's a Lannister after all.



Surely, we can also see that she was forced to commit prejury. She has nothing to lose, just to gain from the trial and its outcome.



She became quite jealous of Sansa when Tyrion tried to comfort Sansa in her grief. I guess that was one of the points when she realized that she had lost. Not only Tyrion as a Lord, but also her bed warmer who began to care for his wife. Even though Tyrion never bedded Sansa of course.



We also know the outcome of the trial by combat - I won't spoil it here for the Unsullied. Tyrion has nothing more to lose actually, he was declined his birthright. Shae moves on to another powerful man - his father. Maybe he's promised her riches, whatever.



My guess is that Shae makes this whole "Sansa and Tyrion did it together" thing up to further underline her 'story' she tells the judges, and of course, that's what Tywin wants to hear in a certain way. It makes Tyrion more likely Joffrey's killer in the end. Sansa is away, Tyrion is still in KL. And at the moment, Sansa's very much out of reach of Tywin.



It's the trial that shows how very much dysfunctional this family is. And destructive. Even on "simple" persons like Shae.


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I would say that the fact that Sansa is implicated by Shae is the best evidence that she is being coerced



The reason you have doubts might be the other changes in the trial. Mostly all the testimony was evidently farce in the book. It was a show trial .....at least Jaime can see that and he frees Tyrion later on.



The addition of the necklace actually does implicate Sansa. Not sure why they did this. Pycell was not supposed to have the poison most suspected of being used. In seeing that Tyrion should believe that Sansa is guilty and framed him

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I read somewhere, that even the actress playing Shae Sibel Kekilli wanted to have the part of her testimony removed, where she blamed Sansa.

Yeah, I read that, too, which proves that Sibel Kekilli certainly has a good understanding of characterization (regardless of what people may think of her acting abilities).

I don't think there is any way Tyrion's actions will be different than in the books. He even called her a lying whore in the show.

Bye Shae.

Exactly. I don't get why people think that Tyrion will not do what he did in his last ASOS chapter. He has made it very clear that he hates Shae for her betrayal (and this is only the first part of her betrayal - we book readers know that the real whammy is yet to come).

They couldn't have had a Cersei forcing Shae to testify scene before the trial as it would have ruined the surprise of her appearance at the end.

They might have a scene next week where Cersei says Well done, we won't slit your throat and feed you to fish in Blackwater bay".

I agree. I just hope that there will be a scene in episode 7 or 8 where we see Cersei/Tywin talking with Shae and giving some explanation as to why she testified.

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The viewer fell into the same trap as Tyrion, believing a whore was anything more then a whore.


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The viewer fell into the same trap as Tyrion, believing a whore was anything more then a whore.

Whores are no different than any other people. Littlefinger aside.

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Shae was almost certainly coerced by Cersei/Tywin into testifying and making up that whole story about Sansa, etc. but I thought it was clear she wanted to be vindictive to Tyrion as well (Cersei would never have come up with the whole "he wanted me to call him my lion" thing). Shae wanted to humiliate him.



While some people are saying this is out of character for the show-version of Shae, who genuinely seemed to love Tyrion, I think it can be viewed as in character if you think about her personality in the show. While it would seem on the surface that she is just angry about Tyrion calling her a whore and sending her away, I don't feel she is that stupid to not realize what he was doing. However, I do think his dismissal of her in general angered her due to pride.



While Tyrion is clearly a character who is often done in by his pride, I think show-Shae is somewhat similar. When we first meet her, she is adamant that she did not grow up a whore or come from necessarily bad circumstances. She later tells Sansa she will not let anyone hurt her, and seems to really believe in her own ability in this regard, despite not really backing it up in any way. She continually rebuffed Tyrion's concerns about his father/sister being able to hurt her. This all leads me to think that she is angry at Tyrion for not trusting in her "abilities" to take care of herself and get things done, so she is willing to skewer him publicly. Essentially, a "he's not with me so I'm against him" approach.

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since tyrion is such a fan favorite, I doubt they'll show him killing Shae. and I agree with the actress about the Sansa thing. Had they left that bit out, it would've been better.

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since tyrion is such a fan favorite, I doubt they'll show him killing Shae. and I agree with the actress about the Sansa thing. Had they left that bit out, it would've been better.

Moving aside all the other evidence, why would fans dislike him for killing Shae? 1. she betrayed him and we didn't even see the biggest part of betrayal yet 2. the character appears to be disliked by majority of audience

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