[Book Spoilers?(I am not sure)] Shae's betrayal of Tyrion

[kacunnin]

Sati wrote: "She's banging his father! Testimony is one thing, THIS? This is another. Not only will she die, people will cheer when Tyrion does it."

I don't think Shae is banging Tywin at all! Not even in the books. Something else is going on, and we don't know what it is yet. But there's no way Tywin would bring Tyrion's whore into his chamber for any reason other than politics. He would NOT have sex with her. He's not the type. Not only does it completely go against his character (in both book and show), but if he wanted to have sex with a whore he'd never do it with one Tyrion had gotten to first.

As for whether people will cheer when Tyrion kills Shae on the show, I'm not so sure. Book readers might cheer, but those who have no clue what's coming may not. I still contend there's no justification for show-Tyrion killing Shae.

[kacunnin]

Quote is the button in the bottom right under the message you want to quote ;)

In my own opinion she is probably testifying because of all three. But my real point is the nature of her testimony. The fine details of their intimate conversations. If she were testifying completely under duress there would be no need for her to reveal these things. Or she could have just made them up rather than repeating things that he had said to her word for word. There's no getting away from the fact that she intentionally set out to humiliate him. Whether under duress or not she could not have been compelled to do it in that way. That was her choice.

I'm also not making the case that her murder would be justified by her wanting vengeance on Tyrion. Only that vengeance is the primary motivation for her actions. In my humble opinion I don't think perjury or vengeance on a former lover to be offenses worthy of a death sentence. Call me a liberal for that if you will :) But justice and death don't go hand in hand in westeros. I think Tyrion will get his revenge in what is the only socially acceptable way for a man to get vengence in the world of ice and fire. That is by killing those who have wounded you. As there's no chain of the hand but there is a pin.....I could see a bit of stabby stabby on the way for poor old Shae. :devil:

Edit: An example of things she didn't have to reveal is the "I am yours and you are mine" possibly the most intimate and loving thing they said to each other. This wounds Tyrion deeply as she knew it would. It prompts him to beg Shae to stop at which she takes a deep breath and presses on. This is clearly vengence for her. From her perspective Tyrion has betrayed their love and made her feel like a whore, as if she is worthless. So she is acting in a way that he has told her to. As a mercenary who can be bought. The consequences of this will of course be his death. Which makes her vengance slightly on the extreme side.

Hey, thanks for the tip on how to quote -- and it's so simple!

I do see your point, and I know that most book readers will agree with you. As I said in my first post, I came to the books after the first three seasons of the show, so my perspective is different. I got to know Tyrion and Shae as real lovers, which is how they have been portrayed in the show from the start. In the books, it's pretty clear she's a gold-digging whore who uses Tyrion for all she can.

Yes, she's vengeful in her testimony, and she does tell them intimate things he told her. She is angry, and she lashes out to hurt him -- and she wants him to KNOW that she's doing this to hurt him (when he askes her to "please stop," she glares at him and says, "I'm a whore, remember?" That's exactly what he said to her when he dumped her -- he told her she's a whore and he can't have children or a life with a whore.

The problem I have with the scenario is that the show made Tyrion the first betrayer -- even if he did it for a so-called "good reason" (to protect her), he cruelly hurt her, and in a way that would be very hard for her to forget. So when she hurts him back, it's a bit difficult for me to accept that he's angry enough to KILL her.

I also don't believe that Tywin had sex with Shae. I know that's what's suggested when Tyrion finds Shae in Tywin's bed (in the book, anyway), but it totally goes against Tyrin's character for him to have a whore in his room, much less a whore that has been sleeping with Tyrion. I see Cersei's hand in this, and Varys's.

Finally, the fact that the show left out the part where Shae has sex with Tyrion among the dragon bones seems important. That was a kind of betrayal that didn't seem coerced in the books -- she acted as though she really loved him, saying all the usual things to him ("my lion," "my giant of Lannister"), and suggesting they would still be together. But it was all lies. And then she testifies against him.

You're probably right, and he probably will kill her. But he shouldn't kill her. It's wrong to kill her, even in Westeros.

[sati]

Sati wrote: "She's banging his father! Testimony is one thing, THIS? This is another. Not only will she die, people will cheer when Tyrion does it."

I don't think Shae is banging Tywin at all! Not even in the books. Something else is going on, and we don't know what it is yet. But there's no way Tywin would bring Tyrion's whore into his chamber for any reason other than politics. He would NOT have sex with her. He's not the type. Not only does it completely go against his character (in both book and show), but if he wanted to have sex with a whore he'd never do it with one Tyrion had gotten to first.

As for whether people will cheer when Tyrion kills Shae on the show, I'm not so sure. Book readers might cheer, but those who have no clue what's coming may not. I still contend there's no justification for show-Tyrion killing Shae.

The whole point is that Tywin was a massive hypocrite. As for being with Shae - perhaps it was his way to humiliate Tyrion? He blames him for Joanna's death.

Most of non book readers I know actually expressed the wish 'I hope Tyrion strangles that bitch!' after the trial scene alone so they are in for a treat in finale.

[The Prince of Newcastle]

And people just like to winge about people wingeing about 'nothing', whats your point?

:

My point is that if he doesn't kill Shae, complain all you guys like. I'll probably add my voice to the complaints my self.

But the scene hasn't happened yet. And people are whinging as if it has and he didn't do it.

I went back and read a thread about episode 1 of season 1. People still endlessly whinged even then, when the show was more or less using the book as a screen play.

[Fantasy Character]

I gotta say that everyone posting about how Shae deserves to be murdered for betraying Tyrion is wigging me out. (Those posting to the contrary reassure me. :D) I keep thinking of this quote:

"Most men fear getting laughed at or humiliated by a romantic prospect while most women fear rape and death.”

― Gavin de Becker, The Gift of Fear: Survival Signals That Protect Us from Violence

I think Shae's death is an important plot point. I was kind of shocked when I read it. I found it an intriguing part of Tyrion's character and part of his dark side. I *like* that there are things about Tyrion I admire and things I find disgusting. It makes his chapters an interesting read.

I think it should be in the show, but I don't think it should be a satisfying 'revenge' or 'death of a villain' or 'Sweet! Strangle that bitch!' moment.

[The Eunuch]

I don't think Shae is banging Tywin at all! Not even in the books. Something else is going on, and we don't know what it is yet. But there's no way Tywin would bring Tyrion's whore into his chamber for any reason other than politics. He would NOT have sex with her. He's not the type. Not only does it completely go against his character

Why, because politicians don't have sex? Do you think Tywin got 3 kids being a virgin? His political skills do not make him less a man. His reproaches against Tyrion were not that he went to whores, but that Tyrion didn't hide it and dishonored the family. That's this hypocrisy that made Tyrion mad at him.

Or, if you think Shae was there for political reasons, why was she on the bed? Why did she call Tywin "M'lord" like she did during her private moments with Tyrion?

[kacunnin]

The whole point is that Tywin was a massive hypocrite. As for being with Shae - perhaps it was his way to humiliate Tyrion? He blames him for Joanna's death.

Most of non book readers I know actually expressed the wish 'I hope Tyrion strangles that bitch!' after the trial scene alone so they are in for a treat in finale.

Whether or not Tywin had sex with Shae, why is she a "bitch"? Even in the book (where she never loved Tyrion, and acted only as his paid whore), why is she any worse than Bronn? Both of them sell their talents to the one with the gold to pay for them. Both of them betrayed Tyrion when it suited their situation.

In the show, it's obvious that Shae truly loved Tyrion. Her reasons for testifying against him aren't as obvious, but even if she did it because she was hurt and seeking revenge, why is she any more of a bitch than Tyrion is an asshole? He hurt her in the worst possible way (telling her the one thing he knew would really hit home, that she was just a whore and he can't love a whore). I don't get the hate against show-Shae, unless it's from book readers who knew book-Shae before they ever met show-Shae.

I have no idea why Shae was in Tywin's bed in the book -- I'm just not convinced he knew she was there, and I suspect a Cersei/Varys hand in it. I'm not saying Tywin would never sleep with a whore, but to sleep with Tyrion's whore -- and to let her wear his Hand of King neclace -- just doesn't ring true to me. But we'll see.

[Uldra I]

Whether or not Tywin had sex with Shae, why is she a "bitch"? Even in the book (where she never loved Tyrion, and acted only as his paid whore), why is she any worse than Bronn? Both of them sell their talents to the one with the gold to pay for them. Both of them betrayed Tyrion when it suited their situation. ...

IMO Bronn is on the up and up... that is he has been honest about his intentions from the very beginning. Shae OtOH, has only worked continuously on Tyrion's affections, lying the whole time. Like Tyrion, I believed her feigned affection for him. Guess since I've been used this way once, I'd have a special place in hell carved out just for the likes of her. If you are going to fuck someone over to literal death in order to get ahead, at least give them the courtesy of a little forewarning. :tantrum:

...

In the show, it's obvious that Shae truly loved Tyrion. Her reasons for testifying against him aren't as obvious, but even if she did it because she was hurt and seeking revenge, why is she any more of a bitch than Tyrion is an asshole? He hurt her in the worst possible way (telling her the one thing he knew would really hit home, that she was just a whore and he can't love a whore). I don't get the hate against show-Shae, unless it's from book readers who knew book-Shae before they ever met show-Shae. ...

Either D or D said in a podcast about 4.06 that they intentionally built up the Shae character to be more sympathetic in the show than she was in the book. He said they planned that long ago, just to heighten the impact of the trial scene.

Neither book or show Tyrion was an asshole to Shae. He loved her and wanted to protect her. He tried to get her to go somewhere safe repeatedly, but she wouldn't do it. He explained time and again why she couldn't just come to his bed, but she did it anyway. I don't think Tyrion is to blame here unless you factor in that he should have shipped her off much sooner.

I have no idea why Shae was in Tywin's bed in the book -- I'm just not convinced he knew she was there, and I suspect a Cersei/Varys hand in it. I'm not saying Tywin would never sleep with a whore, but to sleep with Tyrion's whore -- and to let her wear his Hand of King neclace -- just doesn't ring true to me. But we'll see.

The reason Shae was naked, in Tywin's bed with the Golden Chain of the Hand around her neck is because she felt at home there, relaxed without a care, and waiting to give Tywin a nice juicy welcome back to his chambers. Heck yeah they were having at it! The fact that it seems soooo surprisingly unlike Tywin, is exactly the point! Tywin is a hypocrite! Also Shae with all her fake "I love you's" and "ooo... my giant of Lannister" bs has finally shown her to be the evil succubus she always was. Shae gets NO sympathy from me. :bang:

ps. kacunnin, sorry for being so harsh. Not directed at you personally, but the Shae thing really pushed all my buttons in the last show, and I'm really sick of all the Shae apologists' remarks. Guess, I should just switch topics.

[Theda Baratheon]

Hey, thanks for the tip on how to quote -- and it's so simple!

I do see your point, and I know that most book readers will agree with you. As I said in my first post, I came to the books after the first three seasons of the show, so my perspective is different. I got to know Tyrion and Shae as real lovers, which is how they have been portrayed in the show from the start. In the books, it's pretty clear she's a gold-digging whore who uses Tyrion for all she can.

Yes, she's vengeful in her testimony, and she does tell them intimate things he told her. She is angry, and she lashes out to hurt him -- and she wants him to KNOW that she's doing this to hurt him (when he askes her to "please stop," she glares at him and says, "I'm a whore, remember?" That's exactly what he said to her when he dumped her -- he told her she's a whore and he can't have children or a life with a whore.

The problem I have with the scenario is that the show made Tyrion the first betrayer -- even if he did it for a so-called "good reason" (to protect her), he cruelly hurt her, and in a way that would be very hard for her to forget. So when she hurts him back, it's a bit difficult for me to accept that he's angry enough to KILL her.

I also don't believe that Tywin had sex with Shae. I know that's what's suggested when Tyrion finds Shae in Tywin's bed (in the book, anyway), but it totally goes against Tyrin's character for him to have a whore in his room, much less a whore that has been sleeping with Tyrion. I see Cersei's hand in this, and Varys's.

Finally, the fact that the show left out the part where Shae has sex with Tyrion among the dragon bones seems important. That was a kind of betrayal that didn't seem coerced in the books -- she acted as though she really loved him, saying all the usual things to him ("my lion," "my giant of Lannister"), and suggesting they would still be together. But it was all lies. And then she testifies against him.

You're probably right, and he probably will kill her. But he shouldn't kill her. It's wrong to kill her, even in Westeros.

It was wrong to kill her in the books too but he does anyway. Tyrion doesnt have to be 100 percent good, he ISNT 100% good we KNOW this. He shouldnt kill her but he has to. Its a big part of his descent.

[Le Cygne]

I gotta say that everyone posting about how Shae deserves to be murdered for betraying Tyrion is wigging me out. (Those posting to the contrary reassure me. :D) I keep thinking of this quote:

"Most men fear getting laughed at or humiliated by a romantic prospect while most women fear rape and death.”

― Gavin de Becker, The Gift of Fear: Survival Signals That Protect Us from Violence

Ah, that's where the quote came from, I heard that before. Yeah, doesn't really matter what she did or did not do, we're talking murder here.

[sati]

Whether or not Tywin had sex with Shae, why is she a "bitch"? Even in the book (where she never loved Tyrion, and acted only as his paid whore), why is she any worse than Bronn? Both of them sell their talents to the one with the gold to pay for them. Both of them betrayed Tyrion when it suited their situation.

In the show, it's obvious that Shae truly loved Tyrion. Her reasons for testifying against him aren't as obvious, but even if she did it because she was hurt and seeking revenge, why is she any more of a bitch than Tyrion is an asshole? He hurt her in the worst possible way (telling her the one thing he knew would really hit home, that she was just a whore and he can't love a whore). I don't get the hate against show-Shae, unless it's from book readers who knew book-Shae before they ever met show-Shae.

I have no idea why Shae was in Tywin's bed in the book -- I'm just not convinced he knew she was there, and I suspect a Cersei/Varys hand in it. I'm not saying Tywin would never sleep with a whore, but to sleep with Tyrion's whore -- and to let her wear his Hand of King neclace -- just doesn't ring true to me. But we'll see.

Why on Earth are you asking me about non book readers' reactions I mentioned? Though I do think she is a bitch, indeed. A woman who sleeps with her ex lover father? That's cold. And I have Cersei in my avatar.

Tyrion lied to her to save her life. She had sex with his father to hurt him. Do I need to say more?

[kacunnin]

It was wrong to kill her in the books too but he does anyway. Tyrion doesnt have to be 100 percent good, he ISNT 100% good we KNOW this. He shouldnt kill her but he has to. Its a big part of his descent.

I totally agree with this -- it was wrong of Tyrion to kill Shae in the books, but it's important to his character. He's not a saint, and he doesn't always do the right thing. And I think it will important to whatever happens down the road.

I'm just not sure how the TV show will handle this, since they need Tyrion to be the hero character they've created for him. But we'll see.

[kacunnin]

Why on Earth are you asking me about non book readers' reactions I mentioned? Though I do think she is a bitch, indeed. A woman who sleeps with her ex lover father? That's cold. And I have Cersei in my avatar.

Tyrion lied to her to save her life. She had sex with his father to hurt him. Do I need to say more?

She had sex with his father (IF she did) because he paid her -- and because he would have killed her if she didn't. Tyrion can't have it both ways. If she's a whore, then she's a whore -- no fair calling her a bitch because she does what whores do. And if she's his lover, then he treated her terribly -- and everyone knows how dangerous a woman scorned can be!

[kacunnin]

IMO Bronn is on the up and up... that is he has been honest about his intentions from the very beginning. Shae OtOH, has only worked continuously on Tyrion's affections, lying the whole time. Like Tyrion, I believed her feigned affection for him. Guess since I've been used this way once, I'd have a special place in hell carved out just for the likes of her. If you are going to fuck someone over to literal death in order to get ahead, at least give them the courtesy of a little forewarning. :tantrum:

Either D or D said in a podcast about 4.06 that they intentionally built up the Shae character to be more sympathetic in the show than she was in the book. He said they planned that long ago, just to heighten the impact of the trial scene.

Neither book or show Tyrion was an asshole to Shae. He loved her and wanted to protect her. He tried to get her to go somewhere safe repeatedly, but she wouldn't do it. He explained time and again why she couldn't just come to his bed, but she did it anyway. I don't think Tyrion is to blame here unless you factor in that he should have shipped her off much sooner.

The reason Shae was naked, in Tywin's bed with the Golden Chain of the Hand around her neck is because she felt at home there, relaxed without a care, and waiting to give Tywin a nice juicy welcome back to his chambers. Heck yeah they were having at it! The fact that it seems soooo surprisingly unlike Tywin, is exactly the point! Tywin is a hypocrite! Also Shae with all her fake "I love you's" and "ooo... my giant of Lannister" bs has finally shown her to be the evil succubus she always was. Shae gets NO sympathy from me. :bang:

ps. kacunnin, sorry for being so harsh. Not directed at you personally, but the Shae thing really pushed all my buttons in the last show, and I'm really sick of all the Shae apologists' remarks. Guess, I should just switch topics.

So you believe that show-Shae never loved Tyrion -- I don't buy it. They created scenes for her, scenes that weren't in the book and that made it very clear that she loved him. She tried to get Tyrion to run away with her after he was wounded -- had he agreed, they would have been on their own, without his family money and support. She also refused Varys's diamonds when he tried to get her to leave King's Landing -- why would she do that if she was only in it for the money? And she said she loved Sansa, and would die for her. These scenes were not part of the books, and it's clear that the Shae character created for the show is very different from the Shae character in the books.

Hey, none of this is personal. I do think it makes a difference whether someone comes to Shae's character first through the books or through the TV show. I get that the book readers are pissed off at her; I just don't see the same thing for the show-Shae.

[Rouge]

I find it so ridiculous when people say that Bronn betrayed Tyrion. No, he did not. Janos Slynt and Petyr Baelish betrayed Eddard Stark because they said they'd stand beside him and they ended up stabbing his company in the back. Had Bronn fought as the Throne's champion in Tyrion's trial by combat, it would have been a betrayal. Had he testified against Tyrion, it would have been a betrayal too. What ASOIAF Bronn did was simply to decline championing Tyrion, which would have been suicide against the Mountain. Their implied contract was that Tyrion would pay Bronn handsomely for his services and it was clear that Bronn fighting the Mountain That Rides would have been entirely rewardless for him, even if he won. Even if innocented, Tyrion's standing was pretty much done at that time. All Bronn did was to take the first door out which was the best deal he would have ever gotten in that situation. And he did that without injuring Tyrion or deceiving him.

Shae was a different story and did betray him because she didn't give a fuck about him (still talking about the books here), so her confession was a big feeling of disillusionment for Tyrion who was actually manipulated to believe that she cared very much for him. Then seeing her sleeping in the Hand's Bed was the straw that broke the camel's back. The way I see it, Tyrion strangled her in his moment of insanity because he wanted to reject the harsh truth by murdering its embodiment. It's a very, very odious moment that makes a spiteful monster of Tyrion.

I don't know how GoT will justify the murder, but I have a feeling that they will kind of miss the point. Maybe some dialogue will make it seem like Shae offered herself willingly to Tywin because she follows power wherever it goes. Something that will stain her character even more than it is right now. I'm very curious about it.

And they better make it obvious that Tywin was bedding Shae and that she wasn't there for "political affairs". Tywin's hypocrisy is one of his strongest character points. Many talk about hypocrisy, but it's even more than just that. It's Tyrion finding out about his father's inner demons. Tytos Lannister's mistress obviously had a traumatizing effect on his son. That's when you find out that Tywin has been a staunch and fervent hater of whores and men with mistresses because it was the part of himself that he couldn't chase away. We were never getting a scene where Tywin would breakdown in tears and empty his emotional bag, but this was the closest thing we got hinting that Tywin Lannister was a tortured person inside, just like his children.

Anyway, that Tyrion chapter is probably my favorite of the whole series. The first time I read ASoS, when I read it, I had to stop and reread it again. Then another time. It affected me even more than the Red Wedding and I thought nothing could beat that. I'm anxious to see how it will be done on the show. I've been anxious for quite some time. I expect it to be a great scene, but I think that it might not have the same meaning if they change the set up a bit, especially with Tyrion. I know that some people complain about the favorable treatment that Tyrion's character received from HBO, but all the white-washing will be forgiven so long as they don't sugarcoat this scene and that it marks a permanent change to Tyrion's character. If anything, it'll only make it more shocking for the Unsullied. I'm not too hopeful, but I'm very much looking forward to the episode and the reactions.

[Uldra I]

So you believe that show-Shae never loved Tyrion -- I don't buy it. They created scenes for her, scenes that weren't in the book and that made it very clear that she loved him. She tried to get Tyrion to run away with her after he was wounded -- had he agreed, they would have been on their own, without his family money and support. She also refused Varys's diamonds when he tried to get her to leave King's Landing -- why would she do that if she was only in it for the money? And she said she loved Sansa, and would die for her. These scenes were not part of the books, and it's clear that the Shae character created for the show is very different from the Shae character in the books.

...

Actually, I believed show and book Shae loved Tyrion. But in the books I always suspected she loved him until a better opportunity appeared. The very idea that she did at least care for him and then turned on him is what is so upsetting to me because she knew exactly how devastated Tyrion would be. I'm really starting to believe I'm overreacting and that my reaction must be tied to some psychological aspect of myself. Thanks for listening to that, and apologies for saying too much. BTW also agree that book and show Shae are two different critters (please excuse my southern accent :P ).

... I know that some people complain about the favorable treatment that Tyrion's character received from HBO, but all the white-washing will be forgiven so long as they don't sugarcoat this scene and that it marks a permanent change to Tyrion's character. If anything, it'll only make it more shocking for the Unsullied. I'm not too hopeful, but I'm very much looking forward to the episode and the reactions.

can't wait either. a lot of people think they will throw out the murder scene all together. My money is on its inclusion, grit and all, by the end of this season.

[voodooqueen126]

Yes, the audience would get that painful feeling of proxy shame we all have if someone beloved does something stupid, ridiculous or evil, the Othello-feeling......If they had only talked when there was time........

Not that carmic feeling some may have if they choose to see things black and white: She had it coming.

All would be more conflicted, Shae's death would be more tragic, if Tyrion ever realizes what moved her at least partially it will be more devastating for him, no room for that cheap carmic relief because an antagonist dies by the hand of a protagonist, the emotion flat entertainment tries to sell us as Happy Ending.

Tyrion would be an example of a tragic hero in Greek tragedy, made guilty by desinformation.

But even as it is now, without further description of Shae's motives, that flat "she had it coming" is out of the question if watchers refrain from being judgemental before thinking. Shae is far more complicated than in the books. And the scene in Tywin's bedchamber will come, I am sure, and will offer more room for interpretation (and heavy forum fighting ;) ).

Btw, I have to get rid of a rant, not against the show but against the concept of Shae in the books, and that from me who is one of those simple minded hopeless book and show apologists who uncritically admire artistic achievements :devil:

In the books Shae has from the beginning been shaped as cardboard stereotype of a whore. Already her name is only one letter away from "She" as some kind of female moral archetype. Shae was never supposed to have an identity, a story of her own, she has always been there to illuminate Tyrion's deep personal issues and delusions with his desire to be loved and respected. So she was morally one dimensional in the books. As reaction posters try to invent all evils from Tyrion's side against her like "he stole from her" and "he mistreated her" in order to give her at least some motivation, some story, some identity. This is imo more a sign of justified frustration with Martin's writing than a correct interpretation of what is in the books. There is nothing in the books. Nothing about Shae to give her any depth and this is exactly what makes me angry. I also have tried to write quasi-fanfic in these forums to explain and understand Shae's despicable behaviour at the trial......abused child who never learned empathy.....lower class girl who had to look after herself.... Yaddayadda....because I did not want to see the sex worker and woman demeaned.

But this was the result of a sad omission from Martin's side. Fleshing out Shae may have appeared an unnecessary filler since all was about Tyrion but it would not have been. Tyrion's characterization suffers from leaving Shae so very pale, a side effect the author underestimated imo. I write this as huge fan of book Tyrion as well as show Tyrion.

And the show tried to correct that with good reason, though maybe they have overdone it. Making her so dedicated in protecting Sansa gave them plot trouble by now. And Sansa had to be seriously implicated by Shae or by whomever, a hunted criminal totally dependent of Baelish, seen as capable of murdering again, a victim of negative propaganda.

Yes, the Butterfly Effect... But in that case it was the author and not the show who started it, sorry Mr. Martin.

Please write that fanfiction. It would be well worth reading.

[sati]

She had sex with his father (IF she did) because he paid her -- and because he would have killed her if she didn't. Tyrion can't have it both ways. If she's a whore, then she's a whore -- no fair calling her a bitch because she does what whores do. And if she's his lover, then he treated her terribly -- and everyone knows how dangerous a woman scorned can be!

Yes, she did. You're making an assumption. She could have found herself a lord other than Tywin. I don't think Tyrion would have killed her if she did that with someone different than his father. It is that final humiliation that cost Shae her life.

[HairGrowsBack]

^Honestly, I don't think she had much choice in the matter. The Lannisters pretty much had her as "Tyrion's whore", no way she was going to walk out of this easily, and even if she could, I can't really blame her for choosing Tywin's bed instead of possible death/ being back in war-devastated Westeros.

[Woman of War]

I find it so ridiculous when people say that Bronn betrayed Tyrion. No, he did not. Janos Slynt and Petyr Baelish betrayed Eddard Stark because they said they'd stand beside him and they ended up stabbing his company in the back. Had Bronn fought as the Throne's champion in Tyrion's trial by combat, it would have been a betrayal. Had he testified against Tyrion, it would have been a betrayal too. What ASOIAF Bronn did was simply to decline championing Tyrion, which would have been suicide against the Mountain. Their implied contract was that Tyrion would pay Bronn handsomely for his services and it was clear that Bronn fighting the Mountain That Rides would have been entirely rewardless for him, even if he won. Even if innocented, Tyrion's standing was pretty much done at that time. All Bronn did was to take the first door out which was the best deal he would have ever gotten in that situation. And he did that without injuring Tyrion or deceiving him.

Shae was a different story and did betray him because she didn't give a fuck about him (still talking about the books here), so her confession was a big feeling of disillusionment for Tyrion who was actually manipulated to believe that she cared very much for him. Then seeing her sleeping in the Hand's Bed was the straw that broke the camel's back. The way I see it, Tyrion strangled her in his moment of insanity because he wanted to reject the harsh truth by murdering its embodiment. It's a very, very odious moment that makes a spiteful monster of Tyrion.

I don't know how GoT will justify the murder, but I have a feeling that they will kind of miss the point. Maybe some dialogue will make it seem like Shae offered herself willingly to Tywin because she follows power wherever it goes. Something that will stain her character even more than it is right now. I'm very curious about it.

And they better make it obvious that Tywin was bedding Shae and that she wasn't there for "political affairs". Tywin's hypocrisy is one of his strongest character points. Many talk about hypocrisy, but it's even more than just that. It's Tyrion finding out about his father's inner demons. Tytos Lannister's mistress obviously had a traumatizing effect on his son. That's when you find out that Tywin has been a staunch and fervent hater of whores and men with mistresses because it was the part of himself that he couldn't chase away. We were never getting a scene where Tywin would breakdown in tears and empty his emotional bag, but this was the closest thing we got hinting that Tywin Lannister was a tortured person inside, just like his children.

Anyway, that Tyrion chapter is probably my favorite of the whole series. The first time I read ASoS, when I read it, I had to stop and reread it again. Then another time. It affected me even more than the Red Wedding and I thought nothing could beat that. I'm anxious to see how it will be done on the show. I've been anxious for quite some time. I expect it to be a great scene, but I think that it might not have the same meaning if they change the set up a bit, especially with Tyrion. I know that some people complain about the favorable treatment that Tyrion's character received from HBO, but all the white-washing will be forgiven so long as they don't sugarcoat this scene and that it marks a permanent change to Tyrion's character. If anything, it'll only make it more shocking for the Unsullied. I'm not too hopeful, but I'm very much looking forward to the episode and the reactions.

What a good post!

That hugely interesting character of Tyrion should not be diluted by any reduction of the impact that powerful chapter has on his personality and his plot development.