The Ten Thousand Ships Extract

[juanml82]

Strange how Tolkien and Martin always make the past more grand than the present within their self-created worlds.

Indeed.

The excerpt is awesome. Just that should be made into a movie.

And since we have ice, fire, water and earth magic, do we also get this guy?

http://www.theplotbunnies.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Aang_is___Confused_by_emberose11.jpg

[Maia]

Oh, and another thing occurred to me - it now seems that there was nothing anomalous with Valyria having a trade outpost at Dragonstone, yet not attempting to conquer Westeros. Valyria as a state wasn't into an organized, deliberate conquest that far from home, but rather allowed haphazard colonization by the private interests and could be very occasionally stirred into backing them up.

[Pliskin]

I think I just read A Song of Water and Fire: The Last Airbender.

It was great.

[-Ghost-]

It seems like it

The description of the doom also seems interesting, as water drowned it.

Thats very interesting. Seems similar to what we just read. I wonder if any water wizards had anything to do with the doom.

[Tyrion1991]

?

Reading the excerpt about the water magic really sounded like something out of Wheel of Time or Warhammer Fantasy rather than Song of Ice and Fire.

Is the book going to explain or rationalize how or why magic is not believed in the period asoiaf occurs?

[Arnar of the Salted Sea]

Can someone link it? Can't find it?

[Arnar of the Salted Sea]

Also, the Rhoynar = the first men and the Andals were the invading nomads who brought the seven to Westeros right? Having some trouble recalling this part of the lore

[Ran]

"Perhaps magic was once a mighty force in the world, but no longer. What little remains is no more than the wisp of smoke that lingers in the air after a great fire has burned out, and even that is fading. Valyria was the last ember, and Valyria is gone. The dragons are no more, the giants are dead, the children of the forest forgotten with all their lore."

Maester Luwin, ACoK.

The maesters believe it existed. They just think that it's died out, that they've seen no evidence of it any longer, and they're not interested in the whys or wherefors, and they're not interested in bringing it back,

Arnar,

See the news bar on the left side.

[FrozenFire3]

A few scattered thoughts...

The historical parallel that comes to mind in relation to Valyria and its territories is that of the Greek metropolises and their colonies: both in the way the colonies were founded and the loose political ties to their 'mother cities', while maintaining strong blood and cultural ties.

Also, I got strong Artemisia I vibes (the real one :rolleyes: ) when reading of Nymeria and her reluctance to take up arms against the Valyrians. During the second Persian invasion of Greece, Artemisia adviced Xerses against engaging the Greeks in naval battle and, well, we all know how it ended (cough * Salamis * cough).

Really, it's a classical geekfest ;)

It's good that's confirmed now that the Valyrians first turned east and then west, that's really mirroring the expansion of the Roman Empire.

After securing most of the Italian peninsula, Rome turned its attention to the west and to the south first (Spain and North Africa Phoenician colonies).

[Consigliere]

Also, the Rhoynar = the first men and the Andals were the invading nomads who brought the seven to Westeros right? Having some trouble recalling this part of the lore

Rhoynar =/= First Men.

The First Men were the first to migrate followed millenia later by the Andals who brought the Faith with them. The Rhoynar migration took place approx. 1000 years ago.

Link

[Arnar of the Salted Sea]

Thanks a lot mate!

[Lord Varys]

Rome stuff:

I should have been more precise. I meant that the Romans first put the Hellenistic eastern kingdoms down (save Egypt, which became a client state) before starting the huge western expansion in Northern Spain, France, Britain, and Southern/Western Germany. I'd compare the founding of the Nine Free Cities more or less to the western Roman expansion in that sense, whereas the Ghiscari wars are more or less inspired by the war against Carthage. It even seems that the Isle of Cedars was the thing that started this war, with the Ghiscari having a colony on one side of the island, and the Valyrians on the other. That clearly brings up both Carthage's colonies in Spain (prelude to the Second War), as well as Carthage's garrison on Sicily, which is supposed to one of the causes of the First War.

Valyria really seems to resemble the complicated society of the Roman Republic, whereas foreign territory did indeed become more or less the private property of the powerful noble families. But the difference is, that the true ruling class of Valyria, the Dragonlords, did not really have to engage abroad themselves. They ruled the world from back home, whereas Roman nobles had to win fame, prestige, and power by leading armies and conquer foreign lands.

It seems to have been really a slippery slope to when dealing with representatives of Valyria. If you destroyed some unimportant outpost connected to no important Valyrian family nothing happened, most likely. But if an outpost became important enough that kin of the Dragonlord families, or the Dragonlords themselves had interests there, the hammer of the Freehold would eventually fall on any attacker in that region.

I guess the society of the Ghiscari Empire resembled the Roman Empire much closer, since they apparently had a well-trained army, consisting of legions in which free Ghiscari citizens served.

On Ran and Linda's video on the book:

1. It never crossed my mind that people would actually not buy this book in the information therein could be found online in wikis and stuff. I guess this may be the case, but I never thought people could be this disinterested in real books...

2. Could you elaborate a little bit on the fake history sources Yandel is using to cover the reigns of Jaehaerys II, Aerys II, and the glorious reign of our Good King Robert? Are there already any contemporary history pieces on the War of the Ninepenny Kings, the War of the Usurper, and, especially interesting, studies on Robert's reign?

3. The idea of a special edition with medieval illuminations should really be considered, if you ask me. Especially for GRRM's 'Fire and Blood' volume. And you would not necessarily have to keep closely to the clumsy/bad style of certain medieval codices, since Westerosi history does not have a Dark Ages period like the Middle Ages, where art and pretty much everything else sucked, when compared to the stuff that could be done in Antiquity. Medieval-style illuminations in Westeros could resemble real fine art much closer than real world medieval stuff does, especially in a codex made during the reign of King Robert or Aegon V.

[RumHam]

1. It never crossed my mind that people would actually not buy this book in the information therein could be found online in wikis and stuff. I guess this may be the case, but I never thought people could be this disinterested in real books...

It seemed weird to me too when he brought it up. Then I remembered we get threads on here made by people who have just read the chapter summaries on the wiki asking if it's worth their time to read the actual books. People are strange.

[Ran]

It's not like it's a permanent enjoinder, though, I stress to add. It just seems fair that, as with the LoIaF, the new information in the book be exclusive to the book for a time. People have waited 8 years, they can wait a couple months before throwing it on to a wiki. :)

[Lord Varys]

Of course. I was not complaining about anything. I just wanted to comment on the whole thing. It really never occurred to me that people would not buy concordances and stuff because the information is also - somewhat condensed - available on line.

But I really have to add a very important thing here, in light of the family trees:

If they are supposed to be part of Yandel's in-universe work, it would be really important to add a full family of House Baratheon as well. Robert Baratheon sits on the Iron Throne when Yandel does his work, and both Joff and Tommen are technically also members of House Baratheon. Yandel cannot possibly celebrate Robert's 'glorious reign' and then include only family trees of somewhat minor houses - Starks and Lannisters - in his book. A Targaryen family tree would be important for the understanding of the history post-Conquest, a Baratheon tree would be a testament to the greatness of the new royal house, a Lannister tree could celebrate the ancestors of 'our Good Queen Cersei', and the Stark tree - in universe - be a testament to Robert's close relations to that house. But it really makes no sense without a Baratheon tree.

Only a Targaryen, a Stark, and Lannister family tree in a book dedicated to Robert/Joffrey/Tommen of the House Baratheon would completely miss the point. If I was Yandel, I'd never dare to slight King Robert in this way...

[Mrs.Grumpy]

Robert should know his own lineage.

[Bael's Bastard]

I am perfectly fine with no Baratheon family tree. They need not have included any family trees, but the great curiosity about Targaryens and Starks is being thrown a bone here, and I for one am grateful.

[The hairy bear]

I don't think the Family Trees are supposed to be in world. The index places them as appendixes, after the "afterword" and before the "art credits".

Alhough a Baratheon Tree would certainly be very cool. At least I hope that the text clarifies the relationship between Orys and Jocelyn, and between the Laughing Storm and Steffon.

[Bael's Bastard]

Although I wouldn't expect it to flesh out everything from Orys to Robert as a tree might, I would think there would be considerable new information about identities and relations of Baratheons in the House Baratheon section.

[Tyrion1991]

Why would they worship turtles and yet also kill a quarter of a million of them to make shields?

The Valyrians kill the sacred turtle. There must be war! Kill every last turtle to make shields!