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wolfmaid7

THOSE WHO SING

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The Talking Tree


"After European missionaries introduced Christianity to the Native Americans, the Yaqui of the American Southwest created a myth about a talking tree that spread the news of the new faith. One day the people came upon a tree whose vibrations made a sound that no one could understand. A wise woman who lived deep in the forest sent her daughter to interpret the sounds. The talking tree told of the Christian God and the priests who would soon arrive to teach the people new beliefs and new ways. Not everyone welcomed the coming changes. Some people left to dwell under the ground, taking the old ways with them. Those who remained became the Yaqu".(Thank you Alia of the Knife for this story).



Those who sing



This is an observation of a reoccurring theme about "songs" in ASOFAI and the creatures that posses them. I will discuss why i feel it is important to the overall story and certain character development. First a bit of a mythical parallel, about magic and the songs of nature .It was Greek mathematician Pythagoras, who taught that planets rotating the Sun sang a song by vibrating. He went on to state that from these vibrations a certain harmony was achieved and that they each had a corresponding effect on Earth .The symphony he called, 'the Music of the Spheres reverberated in everything and could be heard by those who had the gift to hear it.



Pythagoras was not the first to put forth this notion though, ancient cultures spoke of creatures sharing ‘a note’ that connects them in the larger scheme of the symphony. So what I am proposing is that there is a similar principle in ASOFAI, whereby there is a ‘shared song/note’ between certain creatures and humans that allow them to bond and communicate with each other. The mystics of the ancient world went on to say that, it is because of the correspondence of sound with the forces of nature that music and song are able to produce magical effects. There seems to be the same going on in our story where the "shared notes" between creatures and individuals give rise to a magical manifestation in the form of mutual symbiosis.With characters notably the Stark pack and Dany, we are privy to see strange happenings and language being used by them to refer to their familiars that aren't present with others.




“In another place his little sister lifted her head to sing to the moon,and a hundred small cousins broke off their hunt to sing with her(ADWD,Jon 1).






Here is an example of how communication is viewed from the point of Jon/Ghost.Their language isn't seen as merely words but sound/"song".With the achknowledgement that below the normal channels of communication there is another language being uttered we will see not only the magic in it,but the potential in it.



Halfway across the bridge, Jon pulled up suddenly.


"What is it, Jon?" their lord father asked.


"Can't you hear it?" ..................Jon was listening to something else.


"There," Jon said. He swung his horse around and galloped back across the bridge. They watched him dismount where the direwolf lay dead in the snow, watched him kneel. A moment later he was riding back to them, smiling. "He must have crawled away from the others," Jon said.






This I believe is one of the most convincing examples of a ‘shared note”.The white wolf that never makes a sound not even when he walks but is somehow able to make a sound that …only Jon could hear.It is also the first quote where we see a clear indication that this trancends distance.



“And he loved to listen to the Direwolves sing to the stars. Of late he often dreamed of wolves .They are talking to me brother to brother, he told himself when the Direwolves howled.He could almost understand them.Not quite….almost……as if they were singing in a language he had once known and somehow forgotten(Bran,ACOK,pg.71)…………..If I were a true wolf I’d understand the song.




This is one of those quotes that highlights the beauty that is the "Shared note" and i'm seriously wondering how advance this will get because Bran hints at possible communication on a level of internal mind to mind conversation and actually translating their language.



Catelyn trembled, just for a second. “Bran’s.” Robb opened the window and let the night air into the stuffy tower room. The howling grew louder. It was a cold and lonely sound, full of melancholy and despair.“Don’t,” she told him. “Bran needs to stay warm.” “He needs to hear them sing,” Robb said. Somewhere out in Winterfell, a second wolf began to howl in chorus with the first. Then a third, closer. “Shaggydog and Grey Wind,” Robb said as their voices rose and fell together. “You can tell them apart if you listen close (AGOT,Catelyn,chpt 3).




This is one of my favorite visuals as it is a strong example that there is a musically magic language that certain people can understand.The POV's in a lot of these cases shows that to the "untouched ear" the song comes across as “noise” but to certain people like the Stark kids and Dany it sounds like music.To Cat howling is what she got out of the wolves,but listen to Robb’s description of the sound the wolves make, he is hearing them as "songs". His bond with Greywind is allowing him to percieve the language of the world that lies just below superficial perception of human view.



I believe the Games prologue is another such incident of this.



The Other said something in a language that Will did not know; his voice was like the cracking of ice on a winter lake, and the words were mocking(Prologue,AGOT).



I'm only speculating that what was percieved as crackling ice ,might sound different to someone like Jon.





If indeed the Direwolves and their proxies share a “song/tone” as I theorize, it could explain what happened to Ghost with Melisandre.



“Ghost” Melisandre made the word a song (ADWD,Jon).




Jon heard a “song” in the word and that equates magic.The glamour Mel utilized may have copied everything about Jon even how he “vibrates” or sounds to Ghost in the magical sense of the word.



We also see when Bran is in the Crow how it sounds from that side of reality:



"The song of the river grew louder,the torches burned a little brighter and the air was filled with stranges smells(ADWD,Bran).



Also, from Jon:"



Jon was about to reach for Longclaw when Leathers spoke,from the far side of the grove.His words sounded gutteral and gruff,but Jon heard the music in it and recognized the Old Tounge(ADWD,Jon,pg.413).



So lets look at the song with Dany



Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt a dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her.There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma she raised her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce.





Morroqo: ‘I am Dragonbinder,’ it says. Have you ever heard it sound?”



Victarion: The sound it made … it burned,


somehow. As if my bones were on fire, searing my flesh from within. Those writings glowed red-hot,then white-hot and painful to look upon. It seemed as if the sound would never end. It was like some long scream. A thousand screams, all melted into one.”



Morroqo: “And the man who blew the horn, what of him?”


“He died. There were blisters on his lips, after. His bird was bleeding too.


‘No mortal man shall sound me and live.’ ”



Bitterly Victarion brooded on the treachery of brothers. Euron’s gifts are always poisoned.



Vic: “The Crow’s Eye swore this horn would bind dragons to my will. But how will that serve me if the price is


death?”



Mor: “Your brother did not sound the horn himself. Nor must you.” Moqorro pointed to the band of steel. “Here. ‘Blood for fire, fire for blood.’ Who blows the hellhorn matters not. The dragons will come to the horn’s master. You must claim the horn. With blood.”( ADWD,Victarion).






I noted in my Dany,Dragonlord and the Dragobbond thread the similarity of the ritual performed in Dany’s dream and the Dragonhorn. The horn seems to copy what the Dragon does to call to its rider. Except what Dany hears as a song (music) it comes across as a terrible sound that burns to others.



Back to the North



“The First Men named us children,” the little woman said. “The giants, called us who dak nag gran, the squirrel people, because we were small and quick and fond of trees, but we are no squirrels, no children. Our name in the True Tongue means those who sing the song of earth. Before your Old Tongue was ever spoken, we had sung our songs ten thousand years.



Men would not be sad. Men would be wroth. Men would hate and swear a bloody vengeance. The singers sings sad songs, where men would fight and kill.





It was a woman’s voice, high and sweet, with a strange music in it like none he had ever heard and a sadness that he thought might break his heart





The Singers:



A closer look at who the Singers really are might shed a little more light on this topic.



"The Children of the Forest Old Nan would have called the Singers,but those who sing the songs of earth was their own name for themselves,in the true tounge no human man could speak.The Ravens could speak it,though.Their small black eyes ,were full of secrets and they would caw at him when they heard the songs(ADWD,Bran,pg.397 electronic version)."



First the term "Singers" is a termed coined by Old Nan and Bran to refer to the Children,but "those who sing the song of earth" the name they call themselves may not apply only to them-the little green men in the cave-



The language of the earth is a symphony of varied songs and those songs are magical in nature.Connected intamately are the Old races that consists of the COTF,Giants,Crows,Direwolves,Weirwood trees and possibly the White Walkers.Anything that has a magical song.



"North of the Wall, things are different. That’s where the children went, and the giants, and the other old races(Osha)."




Below is an example of how things sound on both sides


"Winterfell" Bran whispered........."But" Bran said, "he heard me"."He heard a whisper on the wind,a rustling of the leaves(ADWD,Bran).




This is a throwback to the prologue to AGOT where the found the Direwolves,Jon had heard something only he could hear.Bran heard:



“Bran could hear the wind in the trees, the clatter of their hooves on the iron wood planks, the whimpering of his hungry pup,but Jon was lisening to something else.



Someone was talking and Ghost was playing the note that he shared with Jon.



As we can see from the above examples, those who sing the song of earth clearly encompass more than just the COTF.




The Importance of the Songs:



Their are characters in this story that uses magical song as a means to communicate and bond to those who naturally share it with them.What we see here is a language linking the Old Races/Dragons to those sensitive enough in the realm of man to percieve the language.This is important because in a world heavily invested with nature the perchance of creating "sympathetic" humans is increased via infiltration and influence through the shared song.We look at the relationships of how much Dany,or Jon or Bran have on their familiars,but have we ever stopped to consider that the familiars are no mere creatures and may have some level of influence on how the proxies view and interact with the world around them.



I know there are plenty more examples and i invite you the share them if you see moments where they come into play. Thanks guys.


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Wow this is amazing. Love this, never picked up on this before. Certainly an original theory, one which I haven't come across, but I haven't been here for long.

I know at the back of my head there could possibly be Mance Rayder quotes which you could use...

Thank you,i would like to get those quotes.There are still a lot more quotes that point to the relevance of what "song" means but frankly i can't use all of them so i'm hoping people can use them in the discussion.

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awesome write up man.



Cant help but think of Tolkien's Silmarillion (which I've only read a few pages of) where the universe was created through song (or something like that).


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Excellent OP.

As we have discussed in your Dany/Dragons thread I firmly believe that the song is part of the bonding process when it comes to the Dany, the Starks and their familiars.

As you note it seems to be an acid t call that few are attuned to. I find it interesting but I'm not surprised that the two most magical families in the series seem to be in attuned to hear this song. Perhaps this ability resides in their genes.

Especially with the examples of Bran and Dany we see that the song is used to heal those the animals have a connection with. There seems to be a natural and intuitive magic to it.

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:bowdown:


Nice work.


I like this alot.


Other songs I've noticed.



MMD also calls calls one of her teachers a moon "singer"




......peoples. A moonsinger of the Jogos Nhai gifted me with her birthing songs,- MMD




Dany also learns of two types of singers in the East, stormsingers and spellsingers




Magic had died in the west when the Doom fell on Valyria and the Lands of the Long Summer, and neither spell-forged steel nor stormsingers nor dragons could hold it back, but Dany had always heard that the east was different. It was said that manticores prowled the islands of the Jade Sea, that basilisks infested the jungles of Yi Ti, that spellsingers, warlocks, and aeromancers practiced their arts openly in Asshai, while shadowbinders and bloodmages worked terrible sorceries in the black of night. Why shouldn’t there be dragons too?






Also MMD when she is performing her spell sings




“You must. Once I begin to sing, no one must enter this tent. My song will wake powers old and dark. The dead will dance here this night. No living man must look on them.”







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Excellent OP.

As we have discussed in your Dany/Dragons thread I firmly believe that the song is part of the bonding process when it comes to the Dany, the Starks and their familiars.

As you note it seems to be an acid t call that few are attuned to. I find it interesting but I'm not surprised that the two most magical families in the series seem to be in attuned to hear this song. Perhaps this ability resides in their genes.

Especially with the examples of Bran and Dany we see that the song is used to heal those the animals have a connection with. There seems to be a natural and intuitive magic to it.

I think you put it beautifully and cudoes on mentioning the healing aspect (hey music heals) of the bond.I agree that this is a very intuitive link one tha we noticed with those who are naturally magical and i think that there is magic in their blood that allows for them to be receptive of the song.Or as i'm thinking they are part of a shared song with their familars.

:bowdown:

Nice work.

I like this alot.

Other songs I've noticed.

MMD also calls calls one of her teachers a moon "singer"

Dany also learns of two types of singers in the East, stormsingers and spellsingers

Also MMD when she is performing her spell sings

I did not take note of this and i'm glad that you pointed this out .I wonder if these Singers are naturally intuitive or were taught the songs?Kind of like how the Singers of Westeros taught the First Men.

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Excellent write up wolfmaid.

This is actually more in line with what I was trying to get across over in heresey.

Communication is the key and as I see it the singing has a few purposes not least communication (through the first histories of men being passed down by songs rather than written)and magic ( the singing of incantations such as mad in the tent). Which leads me to the rather obvious conclusion that any communication between the old races and men was magical by nature and what magic do we know of that could facilitate this????????

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Excellent write up wolfmaid.

This is actually more in line with what I was trying to get across over in heresey.

Communication is the key and as I see it the singing has a few purposes not least communication (through the first histories of men being passed down by songs rather than written)and magic ( the singing of incantations such as mad in the tent). Which leads me to the rather obvious conclusion that any communication between the old races and men was magical by nature and what magic do we know of that could facilitate this????????

I totally agree with this and have theorized that it was via the Wolfdreams,Weirwood dreams and possibly Crow dreams was first contact established. This could have also been a big big problem back in the day during a war.If we think about who the Old Races are and think about what it must of been like that a few people were having intamate dreams and communication with the so call enemy they would have been viewd as compromised.

Or those very same people could have been used as ambassadors to bridge the two people together. I think via the songs was the only way to have a relationship at first a first contact situation.

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This is such a lovely theory. I really like the connections between the songs and the Starks, and your explanation for their language and the ability for some human characters and other non-Singers to sing, too is very cool :cool4:


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Moved thread from the ADwD forum to the General ASOIAF forum as it deals with the entire series.


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Excellent OP again Wolfmaid. I love your in depth ideas about the 'songs' and we have discussed the dragonsong a lot on our Dany re-read.


Someone mentioned above the Silmarillion, I am going to look up the quotes tonight to add to this. I think it is a very relevant connection. The fabric of the Earth is made through the song of the Gods. I think the 'songs' in ASOIAF are to show the characters which are very important and who have a deeper inherent knowledge than others, like Jon and Dany and Bran.

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This is such a lovely theory. I really like the connections between the songs and the Starks, and your explanation for their language and the ability for some human characters and other non-Singers to sing, too is very cool :cool4:

Yeah i think the Song angle has been overlooked and in so doing we neglect the "non human" characters who are just as muchs as a fixture of some of the human characters.With this info we can possibly have a better understanding of where some of them might end up and what hurdles can present itself.It makes me look at some things that occur under a new light,for instance the Mel and Ghost scene as well as this being how the Old Races and Powers made contact with the FM.

Moved thread from the ADwD forum to the General ASOIAF forum as it deals with the entire series.

Thanks vey much Anglain. :cheers:

Excellent OP again Wolfmaid. I love your in depth ideas about the 'songs' and we have discussed the dragonsong a lot on our Dany re-read.

Someone mentioned above the Silmarillion, I am going to look up the quotes tonight to add to this. I think it is a very relevant connection. The fabric of the Earth is made through the song of the Gods. I think the 'songs' in ASOIAF are to show the characters which are very important and who have a deeper inherent knowledge than others, like Jon and Dany and Bran.

Yes and i think this common thread that links the Dragons with some of the Targs and the Direwolves with some of the Starks could make for an interesting bit of drama. I expect when the crap hits the fan they way people look at Dany or Jon etc is going to change. These creatures have autonomy and i dearsay they have an agenda.Getting the eggs to Dany and the pups to the Starks couldn't have worked out more perfect for X and i'm guessing that they knew that once those pieces came together,there would be lightning in a bottle,like would begin caling to like and boom.

Awesome Wolfmaid.

I invited some others as well who I think would enjoy this.

Sweet,that would be awesome.

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I think singing, sacrifice and sometimes certain metal blades are needed in casting a spell.


Remember, Moqorro specifically said that he needs either a bronze or silver blade to heal Vic's hand, then he started singing in High Valyrian. Mirri Maz Duur used a runic bronze blade to cast blood magic, then she sang in Asshai'i.



We have "those who sings the song of earth", stormsingers, spellsingers and moonsingers. Dragons eggs sings to Dany in her dream. (Personally, I think songs are simply magical words and spellsingers are basic mages, though they may have healing powers as Dany sent them to heal the victims of pale mare)



About, "" “Ghost” Melisandre made the word a song "", it says Melisandre said Ghost like a song, it implies magic and we know by the app that she blocked Jon and Ghost's bond for a while.


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I think singing, sacrifice and sometimes certain metal blades are needed in casting a spell.

Remember, Moqorro specifically said that he needs neither a bronze or silver blade to heal Vic's hand, then he start singing in High Valyrian. Mirri Maz Duur used a runic bronze blade to cast blood magic, then she sang in Asshai'i.

We have "those who sings the song of earth", stormsingers, spellsingers and moonsingers. Dragons eggs sings to Dany in her dream. (Personally, I think songs are simply magical words and spellsingers are basic mages, though they may have healing powers as Dany sent them to heal the victims of pale mare)

About, "" “Ghost” Melisandre made the word a song "", it says Melisandre said Ghost like a song, it implies magic and we know by the app that she blocked Jon and Ghost's bond for a while.

I think its a bit more than that,yes there clearly is the idea of "worked magic" involve for instance with MMD and Mel . These are all incantations they were thought.Mel definitely used a spell on Ghost,but if we look at the relationship between the familiars and their proxies are more intuitive and is not something that is learnt as a craft.So the difference is the intuitive song vs the learnt songs being utilized.How might the natural vs the learnt going to interact or collide in this.

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I think the "song" as a means of intimate bonding brings with it it's own "magic." It has its own frequency that only someone with the same instinct can hear. It causes both harmony and discord, communication and obstruction.



Whale songs come to mind as a real-world example, but also wolf songs which is why in myth and pop culture, they are often referred to benevolently, (as in Native American culture), and malevolently (in some European traditions), "as the children of the night


There is a pitch for every howl that brings with it its own meaning, and Martins use of animal sigils, or totems in combination with the tradtitions he grew up with, isn't an accident.




The Ghost of High Hart always requests a song of the BBWB, Jennys song, as payment for her prophesies. It is the same sad song that is sung by Tom of Sevenstreams at the sepulchre of Tristifer. It may be the same song in the that Robb tells Cat of while standing before the sepulchre.



This song seems to bring with it tragic events, or at least tied to tragedy.


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awesome write up man.

Cant help but think of Tolkien's Silmarillion (which I've only read a few pages of) where the universe was created through song (or something like that).

This OP reminded me of an interview that I heard Perry Farrell do with Howard Stern years ago, that he reiterated in a printed interview, wherein he expressed that he thought it was possible to musically contact aliens:

"....I'm going to try musically. I found a book that details the musical breakdown of minerals on this planet. For example, phosphate and amethyst and amber, they all have resonances . . . each mineral has its own particular resonance. And this book breaks down the resonances musically. So I'm having this gentleman play sheet music of minerals, if you will, and I have it taped. And in between acts...I'm going to play it out towards the cosmos and see if any music comes back our way. I'm counting on a sense of humor to be had by all, including extraterrestrials. I think they would kind of get a laugh if they understood mineralogy and that we were playing the notes for rock salt."

At the time, I figured he was stoned out of his mind, but maybe its brilliance. The implied premise is that humans either don't know or have forgotten the language of minerals, of natural resonances, from the atoms we come from, made from the stars...but that there could be life out there that recognizes the language. This is a beautiful theory for this piece of fictional work (ASOIAF), too, that there is a natural language out there that either the most primitive-or the most intelligent-life forms can still tune into, but cannot be heard through the fog of modern concerns.

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I think its a bit more than that,yes there clearly is the idea of "worked magic" involve for instance with MMD and Mel . These are all incantations they were thought.Mel definitely used a spell on Ghost,but if we look at the relationship between the familiars and their proxies are more intuitive and is not something that is learnt as a craft.So the difference is the intuitive song vs the learnt songs being utilized.How might the natural vs the learnt going to interact or collide in this.

The idea of a difference between intuitive vs. learnt is a good one. It mentions that the Singers have spells (which appear synonymous with songs). Though there they have an advantage, as they have pretty easy access, so even if it requires learning it's pretty easy going, whereas someone like Mel or MMD have to study it.

The Maesters, too, with varying degrees of success (or mostly none). People like Dany would seem to have a much easier time with the intuitive type. I wonder if that's what went wrong at Summerhall. . . not enough learning or not enough intuition in the songs? Or did they know they needed a song?

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The idea of a difference between intuitive vs. learnt is a good one. It mentions that the Singers have spells (which appear synonymous with songs). Though there they have an advantage, as they have pretty easy access, so even if it requires learning it's pretty easy going, whereas someone like Mel or MMD have to study it.

The Maesters, too, with varying degrees of success (or mostly none). People like Dany would seem to have a much easier time with the intuitive type. I wonder if that's what went wrong at Summerhall. . . not enough learning or not enough intuition in the songs? Or did they know they needed a song?

Maybe Summerhall was the song of The Doom. Absolutely no textual link, but it's an interesting notion that there was a song, or a lack of song, and that's what caused the meltdown.

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