[Book Spoilers] EP407 Discussion

[~DarkHorse~]

I like how Oberyn said he would 'start' with his justice on Gregor- meaning The Mountain is only the first but there are others (is another) he plans to kill. Tywin and Poison! ;)

[Eddard the Builder]

Just came to me that there was no Tywin in this episode... How dare they?

Tywin will soon be killed and they have the audacity of letting him out of an entire episode?

I can't think of a world without TV show Tywin Lannister... Charles Dance is way better than book Tywin...

I mean the episode before Robb's death there was no Robb, and we all know how Richard Madden nailed that role...some parts of me wish Madden was cast as Jon Snow and Kit as Robb.

[Hoo]

I really don't understand why Tyrion did not ask Bronn about his betrayal on shipping off Shae. They just skipped over that. It's a hole in the plot.

[Moon-Pale Maiden]

So, in reference to the speculation around why Shireen is necessary at the wall - has anyone mentioned yet about Shireen's dream in the prologue of Clash of Kings? She tells Maester Cressen that she had a dream that she was eaten by Dragons.

“I had bad dreams,” Shireen told him. “About the dragons. They were coming to eat me.”

The child had been plagued by nightmares as far back as Maester Cressen could recall. “We have talked of this before,” he said gently. “The dragons cannot come to life. They are carved of stone, child."

Ominous..works with the stone dragon theory too. Ugh.. too terrible a fate for such a sweet girl. I hope she doesn't go that way.

[Emperoreddy]

I really liked the Arya and Hound scene. Did that happen in the books, him giving a man "mercy"? I don't remember, but it will serve as a nice foreshadowing.

[Stannis I]

I mean the episode before Robb's death there was no Robb, and we all know how Richard Madden nailed that role...some parts of me wish Madden was cast as Jon Snow and Kit as Robb.

Yeah.

For me it's different, though, since when the red wedding took place in the TV show I hadn't yet read that part in the book, so I didn't notice Robb's absences before it.

Now the feeling is quite different, since I know Tywin will be dead in a few episodes...

I tell you, it's quite a change watching the TV show as an unsullied and as a book reader! LOL

[Hound's She-wolf]

I really don't understand why Tyrion did not ask Bronn about his betrayal on shipping off Shae. They just skipped over that. It's a hole in the plot.

You're right! Not a single, WTF happened dude?

[Hound's She-wolf]

I really liked the Arya and Hound scene. Did that happen in the books, him giving a man "mercy"? I don't remember, but it will serve as a nice foreshadowing.

They came upon a soldier, Sandor showed her where the heart was, then in the fight at the Inn, she had gutted a squire, and finished him off using that technique.

[Zman1863]

You're right! Not a single, WTF happened dude?

Yeah I would have thought he'd have been asking more questions about how Shae had been scooped up given Bronn's past statement.

[sj4iy]

Yeah I would have thought he'd have been asking more questions about how Shae had been scooped up given Bronn's past statement.

Didn't he mention that he was being followed when he came back and reported to Tyrion after he did it?

[Eddard the Builder]

I really don't understand why Tyrion did not ask Bronn about his betrayal on shipping off Shae. They just skipped over that. It's a hole in the plot.

Because it didn't matter. Whether he put her on a boat and it made a u-turn back to King's Landing, or Cersei/Tywin said 'guard her and you will die here and now, give her to me and you shall be rich beyond your wildest dreams, and given a stout keep.' It doesn't matter. Either way Bronn is Bronn, and Bronn loves himself more than...well anyone.

[rmholt]

Yeah, I got the impression they were going to go to the Vale. Pod also said Sansa might be there as well. Makes sense that the sisters would head there - unless you knew Lysa Tully personally :eek: !

But Brienne did ask Pod if he was completely sure, and of course he said he wasn't. I dunno. I always thought that Brienne should try the Vale in the books, I guess GRRM wanted to show us more of the world and the conditions the smallfolk were going through - but a close relative living in a secluded, very defensible place, seems like a natural destination for Arya and Sansa.

The plan =/= the action

[Obebb]

Yeah he hinted to Tyrion that he could champion him but who was to say if he was being serious. He announced and confirmed it during the final trial in front of the whole court.

Hinted? He fully said "I will be your champion"... Jesus guys.

[Oberyn2cool4Westeros]

Man, Thorne's an even bigger cuntbag in the show. Really like the actor tho, he does a good job and - unlike Slynt - he knows what he's talking about for the most part. Still, can't wait till she gets checked by Jon, along with kissass Slynt.

All of Tyrion's convos were great, especially the one with Oberyn.

And I lol'd at LF kissing Sansa. I didn't think they'd actually do it in the show.

[Bronn son of Bronn]

Did I misinterpret in the books? I was under the impression that snow Winterfell was life sized. This one had a serious Spinal Tap/Stonehenge problem.

lol @ spinaltap

I had something a bit bigger in my mind, but not sure how Sansa was meant to build a full-size snow Winterfell?!

[rmholt]

No, there's no indication Mord is back.

He should still be there if needed.

[Stannis I]

lol @ spinaltap

I had something a bit bigger in my mind, but not sure how Sansa was meant to build a full-size snow Winterfell?!

"First Builder Sansa Stark, should we seal the gates?"

[Emperoreddy]

I liked the Dany scene. She is sliding more and more into crusader land and her crazy Targ side shows a bit and Jorah is the moral compass, more then anyone else because trusts him. The scene when he is kicked out should be quote emotional.

[Whoring Drunkard]

As a book purist, even I don't mind the change from 'only Cat' to 'your sister' -- it just doesn't change anything for me. However, if people are saying that D&D did it for the unsullied, well, I think that's really not giving the tv viewers any credit for intelligence.

They not only re-iterated how much Littlefinger loves 'Sansa's Mom' just a few scenes prior (and god knows we've heard it for 4 seasons straight now)... but come on -- they think TV viewers won't remember who Catelyn STARK was? They think they forgot the woman's name from the Red Wedding? Lol, that's laughable and insulting.

No. Makes zero sense. If it were some secondary character, sure -- but not Catelyn Stark.

I think they changed it just to change it -- cuz they can.

For all those upset about the change to "your sister", would it have been better if he said "Only Catelyn"? Because I'm not sure she's ever been referred to as "Cat" on the show. Casual viewers remember Lady Catelyn Stark. They might scratch their heads at "Cat".

[Fat Trell]

That's fucking Gregor. That's the Mountain that Rides. That's a man who strikes so much fear Tywin Lannister chooses his life over an entire kingdom. That's a man who crushes shield walls and splits people in half. Took them three tries, but HBO finally got it perfect.

Jaime and Tyrion wasn't bad. No complaints.

Tyrion and Bronn was great. Verbatim from the books is never a bad choice.

Tyrion and Oberyn was also good. That's how you adapt a scene. Cut out unnecessary fluff and stick to the main plot points.

The Arya and the Hound scene with the dying man was good until the beloved beasts of Saltpans showed up. Rorge and Biter was very stupid. They are incredibly dangerous people in the books. Rorge is able to fight evenly with Brienne for a time(I think, been awhile). Biter is perhaps the most terrifying thing in the books. These guys come off not as unrepentant psychopathic savages, but as drunken bandits blindly chasing a bounty.

Also; Arya is on some Wild Bill shit with that draw time. Sheesh

Once again, even when engaging with incredibly spontaneous sex with an older man, who happens to be an experienced killer, Dany is totally in control. Even when admitting mistakes, Dany never falters.

Daario's small talk with Jorah in the hall was some soul-crushing stuff man. "She's in a good mood" Cold Daario, cold.

Second Arya and the Hound scene was good. Would have preferred that discussion on the barely present burns to have taken place in season 1 with a different Stark, but not bad. Their relationship is drifting back into buddy cop territory though.

Great to see Hotpie again. His actor does a very good job and I loved the wolf-bread.

Brienne is far too mean for me in the show. She belittles nearly everyone she meets. She comes off as more of a snarky, bitter person than someone who is still committed to the ideas of chivalry and honor. Really conflicts with my reading(and the general interpretation) of the character.

Jon Snow sucks, again. Not surprising. HBO continues to interpret his character as an immature boy who takes any rebuke with sullen tantrums. Very odd change making him support the sealing of the Wall. I do like how Thorne continues to bring up the fact that Jon is a steward though. With actual time between his return and the battle, it makes sense this would have come up.

Always good to see an Othell Yarwyck shout out.

Sansa scene was great until Robert shows up. Robert seems pretty genuine in his mistake trying to make a moon door. Sansa has a right to be upset but she seemed only the slightly less childish party here. After that it was all decent, would have preferred "Only Cat" but not a big deal.