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[Book Spoilers] EP407 Discussion


Ran
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Oh great here come 5,000 posts complaining that he didn't say "only Cat"

Jeez, it was just one change of a line, can't believe people are upset.

Hell of a scene...hell of an episode.

hahaha Brilliant. I love it when purists get so annoyed over pretty insignificant changes like this one (albeit a very popular line). That has made my week.

It's not just that it is one line...it is sort of like dracarys, it has its own meaning to the story. Since either one is only two words, why change it?

Bet both Sansa and LF lie and say Lysa fell.

Which will be weak IMO - a person who has been around the moondoor her entire life, knows how dangerous it is, all of a sudden falls out days after being married? after some strange young lady shows up? Unless LF has already had people bought to buy that happening that wouldn't - pardon the expression - fly.

Also I don't understand why some people weren't happy with Aidan Gillen as Littlefinger, he's perfect for that role. It's one of those occasions where i, when i reread the books, put my own imagination completely aside and replace it with both the face and the voice from the show.

I think he is a fine actor, the issue I have is that his voice & accent changes more than a 13 year old boys does. I think they have written him as far less subtle and manipulative than he is in the books, but he is doing very well with what story they have provided him.

I think ultimo is right. That is what I thought was the logic behind the line change. Casuals could be sort of confused and forget who Cat is. She hadn't been called "Cat" for a couple seasons anyhow. It just made it more clear for some viewers.

Would someone who follows only the show even have realised who "Cat" is, without having to think about it for a sec?

Saying "your sister" just makes it more clear.

So at the same time the "unsullied" are quick enough to pick up on little hints and phrases in prior episodes, but in this one they wouldn't be able to pick up on her name? Seems like reasoning needs to be consistent...either they can pick up on it or they can't. It's not like we haven't had multiple scenes where it is reinforced that LF had a thing for Cat.

Couple things... seemed like Mel admitted she's full of crap and knows more about magic tricks than R'hollor secrets. Strange.

Yeah, that seemed a little odd...basically breaking the magicians rule by telling how the tricks are done.

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I thought the a Tyrion-Jaime scene was exceptional. Tyrion was actually counting on Jaime to be his champion - at least that's what I saw in his face, unlikely though he must have known it would be.

I don't see UnCat coming in this season. But D & D might shuffle things around between now and then to make it make sense.

I'm just glad we don't have 3D or that moon door would terrify me.

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Someone mentioned it already but the point, which was made clearer with some excellent camera direction, is that Selyse had some serious misgivings about Mel and Stannis getting it on and is jealous of Mel's physical appearance. She also is completely devoted to Mel and their Lord and understands that it is all for their "greater good". In its own truly weird way it's an excellent scene to show Selyse hashing it out and Mel trying to comfort her in a peculiar but extremely effective way. She's naked obviously so Selyse can see her body and know that she doesn't exactly match up.

Plus calling the seen a waste isn't close to being true. Even if you didn't like the nudity it established that they're all getting out of there, including Shireen whom apparently the Lord "has a plan for". What that means is yet to be seen and we can all speculate heavily on it, but the blatantly obvious reason that they're getting Shireen out (Note: not the same as the Lord's plan for her, to be clear) is because Mel probably sees that Dragonstone is going to be taken by the Lannisters/Loras soon.

1. Really? "Excellent" camera direction? Not "The-Only Camera-Direction-That-Makes-Sense-In-This-Scene?" Really?

2. Selyse had serious misgivings about Mel and Stannis? WOW! Hold. The. Phone. A woman has "misgivings" about the woman her husband is fucking. Incredible. Who would have thought it? Look, I could have figured all that out on my own and, frankly, I don't know how much that has to do with the entire story as a whole. Honestly, Stannis is a second-level character, his wife a third (at best). DO we really need to know this about her? NOw, even if I agree with you, can't it be one or two lines later on in the show as a back-drop to another scene? Why have a stand-alone scene to tell us this?

3. WE ALREADY KNEW SHE HAD A GOOD BODY! We don't need the 4th scene of her being naked to know that; we can infer Selyse knows it. Dear God...

4. Anyone can tell us Shireen is part of the "Lord's Plan" and at any time. Do it when we all get to the Wall (any season now); do it on the ship; but do it as an ingrained part of another scene to save us all time and effort.

5. No clue why she needed to be naked. I know when a woman has a good body; I don't need to see her naked to know that.

Look, the reason for the scene: They are on their third Mountain.

That's why.

They are on their third Mountain. Why? Because the show-runners could not give the actors before enough to do to satisfy them so they found other things to do. Its almost happened with larger parts. But the issue is clear: some parts are bigger than others and the show does not want to replace actors as they grow board with their small parts. So, they throw them a bone. Here its clear: they want Mel to stick around, they want Selyse to stick around, so they manufacture a scene to get them together and talk, they get paid, and they will be around for season 5. .

They don't want to be on their Second Mel. That's why that was a scene.

Edited by Rockroi
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Yeah pretty dumb the Hound is going to be done in by a little bite. Vargo Hoat had the same thing, but you can't compare The Hound to The Goat.

People died of many things back even more seemingly innocuous. Any infection of any kind (especially on the neck) is extremely dangerous.

My cousin go a cold when he was 3 years old. No big deal, right? Until his lymph node on his neck swelled up. Go to the doctor, and he has a MRSA infection of the lymph node. It took 3 months of IV and oral antibiotics, as well as draining the infection every week to clear it up. Otherwise, he would have died.

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I think it's not that hilarious. "Only Cat" has a lot more meaning than "Your sister". I remember going to school after finishing Storm and talking to my friends about it. It was something like "How badass was this scene?! "Only Cat!" was so intense and added so much to the scene! I think it's one of my favourite lines ever!"

And I was just very disappointed, when they changed that. I just love the line. I hope they don't cut "Fetch me a block, Edd" or "Egg... I dreamed I was old..."

Yeah it's a brilliant scene in the book. I love it.

I also loved it in the show. And if you go ok YouTube, there's a dub with only cat.

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Yes I would've liked that a lot too. I think for the sake of entertainment that it would've been more shocking and intense if he would've revealed it in front of everyone. One of my favorite scenes in the book.

I thought it was much more powerful for Tyrion this way. And besides, at this point no one but Tyrion knows therefore the public declaration can still be made.

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Because it didn't matter. Whether he put her on a boat and it made a u-turn back to King's Landing, or Cersei/Tywin said 'guard her and you will die here and now, give her to me and you shall be rich beyond your wildest dreams, and given a stout keep.' It doesn't matter. Either way Bronn is Bronn, and Bronn loves himself more than...well anyone.

Yeah, Bronn is a sellsword & Shae, a whore with big ambitions so in the books the outcome was not surprising . On the show, the characters are much nicer but still no surprise here.

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A few more thoughts on second viewing:



The mercy-killed man is definitely foreshadowing. Whatever the lines were... they're fair in the North, give and take, but now everything is out of balance. Significant lines from a throw-away character.



This is the first episode that I liked Carice's acting. Too bad she was upstaged by her own nudity. I still think Mel can be glamoured, even without the ruby choker. Surely among her stash of magic potions she could have some glamourizer. Maybe in the form of stuff in a blue vial she puts in her bath. Show can still include her being glamoured, easily.



Incredibly weird but I was struck how much Daniel and Joe (Pod and Gendry) look alike. I mean, it was uncanny really. That's all I'll say.



I was OK without the giant doll destroying the castle. There was still a giant meaniehead destroying Winterfell snowcastle, and Sansa responding with outrage and out-of-character violence. I was fine with the bitchslap.



-



As for seeing LS as season finale, which I still hope will happen... I'm guessing they'll have a scene like the books, with LS getting revenge on a Frey or two.



Someone upthread surmised the season finale would be Brienne and Pod getting hanged, and I also thought the showriters would save LS's reveal for Brienne, but that means we need to see Arya leave the Hound, time passing, Brienne and Pod visiting the Quiet Isle (with or without Meribald and Dog?) and glimpsing the black stallion and the gravedigger, Gendry's return to the story.... and those are the bare minimum things that should be included in Brienne's storyline before she meets UnCat.



LS taking down her hood and showing her face to a doomed Frey would be a perfect cliffhanger, and the scene needs precisely zero set-up with other main characters.



Unless the writers choose the reveal of BR to be the cliffhanger.



ETA if they let Shae live and turn her into the Tysha of Tyrion's WDWG? obsession, I am going to be spitting fire. They've already set it up. All Jaime needs to do is tell Tyrion that he found out Shae only lied to try and save him, Tyrion gets "she does love me!" sparkles in his eyes. Damn, they've set it up to happen that way. Makes me incensed just thinking about it.


Edited by Fool of a Book
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I still think "OnlyCat" is one of those book-fan things that started to take on it's own dynamic in places like these. So you get book-readers exchanging knowing looks, saying how "OnlyCat is going to happen this season/next week", whatever, with Show-watchers looking confused, wondering what that means. And then the scene comes up and LF says "your sister". So the show-watchers say "What was that Only Cat thing now?" and suddenly the book-fans look somewhat silly. So the only thing left to do is to go into a deep think and make up a whole paragraph about why it had to be "Only Cat", why that line is of such importance and why it should not have been altered.


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Too much noise for a "your sister" really guys... I regret much more that oberyn and tyrion dialogue didnt had the : ""Yes, but you are here now, and in some difficulty, I would say. Your innocence may be as plain as the scar on your face, but it will not save you. No more than your father will." The Dornish prince smiled. "But I might." "You?" Tyrion studied him. "You are one judge in three. How could you save me?" "Not as your judge. As your champion."


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I thought it was much more powerful for Tyrion this way. And besides, at this point no one but Tyrion knows therefore the public declaration can still be made.

I complained about the lack of "I will be your Champion" last week, but I have to admit I was wrong. This was better, just for that scene and Dinklage's subtle but utter relief at the end

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