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[Book Spoilers] EP407 Discussion

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Hard to believe

They were talking about it on IGN, that HBO will air episode 8 next week then take a 7 day break to even out after.

Edited by D-Shiznit

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I also thought the Sansa-Lysa-Petyr scenes were pushed along too quickly. And Robin isn't sickly enough. :P But he was whinny and snivelling enough.

I don't think that Robin is sickly at all. I like this Robin more than in the book, i find him to be extremely annoying in the book, while he makes me chuckle in the show.

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Brienne has no connection to them in the show, whereas Arya does.

I think there could have been a certain poetry to Brienne "avenging" Arya without even knowing it. Plus, as they've made it, they're not letting Brienne act as a "true knight," defending the common folk from rapers and raiders, which I think is a huge oversight.

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Random impressions:



- Mel is fine as hell, sweet R'hllor have mercy on my soul. If Dany accepts the Lord of Light too I might have to start worshiping that bastard myself



- Ramsay and Theon are in better shape than Daario. There, I said it. The dude has been going to the same gym as Grey Worm



- I randomly pictured Littlefinger slipping and rolling down those ice-crusted stairs on the yard



- Robin was surprisingly (and relatively) nice until they started to argue



- Everything Tyrion was just aces. I'm so going to miss Oberyn. Damn Martin, why you had to kill him just for a bit of shock value and trope reversal?



- Hotpie cameo! Happy day, now that he mastered the direwolf I'd like an order of Tyrell Rose Cookies, thank you


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- I randomly pictured Littlefinger slipping and rolling down those ice-crusted stairs on the yard

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL! That is magic. It should happen.

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Everything Tyrion was just aces. I'm so going to miss Oberyn. Damn Martin, why you had to kill him just for a bit of shock value and trope reversal?

More like so Tyrion's story could progress, lol. What would happen if he won the trial? Run off and live a peaceful life in Dorne?

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More like so Tyrion's story could progress, lol. What would happen if he won the trial? Run off and live a peaceful life in Dorne?

That and the Sand Snakes' and Arianne begin mobilizing once Oberyn is toast.

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More like so Tyrion's story could progress, lol. What would happen if he won the trial? Run off and live a peaceful life in Dorne?

No, run off and plot alongside Arianne, Doran, the Sand Snakes and a living Oberyn :devil: . I for one would have liked that better than his travelogue, but maybe his arc in Essos is going to be a good one in the next book

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they had the perfect chance for tyrion to talk about tysha, but they didnt have him bring her up. "i sould have never believed that a whore could love me." he should have said. , "i should have learned my lesson the first time"


im starting to think that they are dropping that whole thing.


also, fucking sansa!. that whole segment of th show was amazing. i'll even forgive the "your sister" because it was so good. the stark theme as she walsk out... so many feels. that kiss. ugh. poor sophie. must have been pretty awkward to film.


Edited by Chuckling Tree

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More like so Tyrion's story could progress, lol. What would happen if he won the trial? Run off and live a peaceful life in Dorne?

He'd probably yell "Are you not entertained?" and chuck his spear at Tywin :D

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"Only Cat" becomes "Your sister"?!?!?!

That can only be a deliberate middle finger to fans. :bang:

:agree: it's like they're think the Unsullied wouldn't remember Cat as Cat so they changed the entire line. I'm very disappointed. Edited by Littlefingers In The Air

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Mel's nudity was still gratuitous (way less plot-relevant and way more extended than Daario's), but at least she's a character that's more than a sexual object.

I don't think it was so gratuitous. It was very subtle way to say "your husband hit this because I'm hot, I tell jokes and bring me my beauty creams, Queenie".

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Huge, huge huge rebound episode after several weeks of listless meandering.



What I liked:



Brotherly Love: Tyrion and Jaime, once again, show the dimensions of their love and affection, as endlessly complicated as it is. Jaime wants to be there for his brother, but cannot be and it pains Tyrion so much when Jaime – in effect- admits that he’s not the man he used to be. And while Tyrion tries to mask it in humor and subtlety, he ultimately must admit something very scary: his big brother will not be there to protect him. The layers of both pain and sadness in that scene was huge: as Tyrion must – in some ways for the last time – “grow up” and dissuade himself of the notion that Jaime won’t be there to protect him.



But more than that: Jaime CANNOT be there for him and he must admit that fact to Tyrion, and in doing that, Jaime is prevented from protecting the one person he has wanted to protect his entire life.



The depths and dimension of that love was shone brightly in that one scene.



Brotherly Hate: Conversely, the Hound’s scene was honest and tight; the horror to Sandor was not being fried, but the fact that his own brother did it; the one person he had always hoped would protect him. And making it worse, the fact that his own father hid it away. The sense of loneliness and of isolation is more appreciable than I thought possible.



Sex, It’s a Good Thing: I like that Dany had Sex, that she seemed to like it and that the Universe did not end. I always found the needless avoidance of sex between people attracted to one another to be a monumental waste of time. I don’t care about stupid oaths and I don’t care if you feel like you shouldn't be fucking the hot sell-sword. Sex is not evil. I liked how Dany had sex with the guy who she wanted to have sex with and that he wanted to have sex wit hher and the world did not end.



Friendship: IN the books, Bronn’s exit from Tyrion’s life is, in effect, a bland and blatant attempt to make Tyrion’s life seem shitty. And in the book, it works. But in the books, the scene is done entirely from Tyrion’s POV; the story never even HINTS on how the maneuver affected Bronn or how Bronn felt or if Bronn had any regrets or misgivings about it. The story isn’t about Bronn, after all. But the show did Bronn a kindness and gave him the parting we knew could be there: that Bronn had good reasons for not fighting AND he had regrets for not doing what he was not doing. Bronn’s farewell from Tyrin was whole- far more whole- and thus far more complicated than it was in the book. IT was, in so many ways, more “book” than the books.”



Which leads to this:



Shut up all you people that hate book-people for fairly criticizing the show; Jesus Christ not ever single criticism of the Show is somehow a statement that the books are perfect or that everything must be 100% done in line with the books and THAT’s what we “purists” don’t like. No. That’s bullshit. No- when we criticize the show, he here’s a fucking novel idea – it’s because sometimes the show is lazu, misses the point, does stupid shit or is just plain-‘ol ‘not very good.’ I know, I know, the Hersey. But seriously- I JUST NAMED FOUR SCENES THAT THE SHOW DID BETTER THAN THE BOOKS!!! So enough with the knee-jerk reaction to sensible, reasonable criticism of the show, for the love of Christ. Covered it in the bold faced section.



Sansa and the Lunatic She Lives With: Spot. On. Once again, I felt that the show crystallized the impossibility of Sansa’s universe: she’s a pawn, a sex-object, a child, a token. And the actress and the story have shown that to the letter.



What I am Not Sold On:



So… we … Doing anything or Are You Just Taking a Bath, Tits McGee? : Okay, so, no bath it was. Look, I know they need to do stuff and stuff, and we got some good info that they will be leaving Dragonstone, but … what was the point? Did we need to see Mel’s boobs more (and after almost 4 years of the show, that may be the actual answer). Why were we there and why are we listening to them? Stannis? Why not a scene with him? OR any in a long line of characters anybody gives shit about? Did we really need to know where Mel keeps her poison (perilously close to the stuff that makes her tingly in the tub, apparently)> I just found the whole scene to be a waste.



What I did Not Like:



I don’t have any major complaints with this episode.



This was the best episode since Jaime Joff was killed and it’s not close.


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It's not gratuitous for someone to be naked in the bath. I think it was an interesting choice to show the sister-wife dynamic between Stan's two queens, while the Dragonstone boys are off dealing with bankers.



Once again Carice/Mel's utter confidence in situations where some people would feel ashamed or vulnerable is an effective demonstration of her power and her dominance. And the only time that the camera ogled her rather than just showing her matter-of-factly, was a POV shot from a woman's perspective.



I will have commentary on things beyond this scene later on.


Edited by Konradsmith

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What I am Not Sold On:

So… we … Doing anything or Are You Just Taking a Bath, Tits McGee? : Okay, so, no bath it was. Look, I know they need to do stuff and stuff, and we got some good info that they will be leaving Dragonstone, but … what was the point? Did we need to see Mel’s boobs more (and after almost 4 years of the show, that may be the actual answer). Why were we there and why are we listening to them? Stannis? Why not a scene with him? OR any in a long line of characters anybody gives shit about? Did we really need to know where Mel keeps her poison (perilously close to the stuff that makes her tingly in the tub, apparently)> I just found the whole scene to be a waste.

What I did Not Like:

I don’t have any major complaints with this episode.

This was the best episode since Jaime Joff was killed and it’s not close.

Someone mentioned it already but the point, which was made clearer with some excellent camera direction, is that Selyse had some serious misgivings about Mel and Stannis getting it on and is jealous of Mel's physical appearance. She also is completely devoted to Mel and their Lord and understands that it is all for their "greater good". In its own truly weird way it's an excellent scene to show Selyse hashing it out and Mel trying to comfort her in a peculiar but extremely effective way. She's naked obviously so Selyse can see her body and know that she doesn't exactly match up.

Plus calling the seen a waste isn't close to being true. Even if you didn't like the nudity it established that they're all getting out of there, including Shireen whom apparently the Lord "has a plan for". What that means is yet to be seen and we can all speculate heavily on it, but the blatantly obvious reason that they're getting Shireen out (Note: not the same as the Lord's plan for her, to be clear) is because Mel probably sees that Dragonstone is going to be taken by the Lannisters/Loras soon.

Edited by When Harry met Sansa

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Hot Pie's monologue about the importance of gravy only needed to be 50% longer to be something GRRM himself would write.


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