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[Book Spoilers] EP407 Discussion

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From a show only-perspective the viewer knows for sure some sort of plan to go up there has been in place since Davos told Stannis about it last season, but it hadn't been confirmed on the show until this week. Last week we had the whole Iron Bank plotline which Stannis needed (and apparently he needed Saan's ships too) so they couldn't confirm sailing in the show-universe until the $$$ and ships were secured.

We know Stannis will be at the Wall in Episode 9. It's doubtful we get a Stannis scene next week unless they want to spend one minute on showing him sail finally. Where they are going with Shireen's plotline is less certain but at least they are alluding to the fact that they might want to burn her for prophecy stuff.

Yeah, I think they will stretch out the fighting at the Wall as long as they can to make it seem impossible for anyone to help them and then have Stannis sweep in at the last minute.

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It's got nothing to do with "stupidity".

sure it does, to some extent... they've spent 4 years with LF referring to her as "Cat" ... if unsullied can't tell who he meant had he used that line, they're stupid

~~3. WE ALREADY KNEW SHE HAD A GOOD BODY! We don't need the 4th scene of her being naked to know that; we can infer Selyse knows it. Dear God... ~~

~~5. No clue why she needed to be naked. I know when a woman has a good body; I don't need to see her naked to know that.

i'm constantly amazed at the criticisms i read of nudity/sex and i rarely see anything written about violence/bloodshed... both violence and sex were a big part of this world, just accept it

Edited by basilisk312

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Yeah, I think they will stretch out the fighting at the Wall as long as they can to make it seem impossible for anyone to help them and then have Stannis sweep in at the last minute.

Exactly. With all of Episode 9 set at the Wall they've got plenty of time to do it. I would not be surprised at all if out of the whole 50+ minutes they have allotted for the ep. that STANNIS! STANNIS! STANNIS! takes up 90 seconds or less. After all, there's plenty of other things to focus on.

-There's the scarcrow soldier prepping on top of the wall, as well as barricade and defensive prepping around CB.

-There's the assault on the wall itself from the north. There will be a fight under the gate where Grenn probably perishes in place of Donal Noye.

-There's the skirmish/raid from south of CB. Jon is organizing the defenses and does plenty of fighting. We see Ygritte get shot down by that little boy (Satin, they might even have Jon ask him his name in the show while they're on top of the Wall.) Ygritte and Jon death scene will probably be 5+ minutes.

-There's the continued, secondary assault from the north. Probably will get some scenes from the Wildling camp in here as well where we see their organizational strategy. Would expect the same from the NW camp.

-There's Jon being commanded to go speak to the Wildlings.

-There's Jon in the tent when Stannis arrives. The tent scene will probably be longer but again, I don't expect more than 90s worth of time to see Stannis' knights thundering out of the woods. Expect to hear warhorns, see horsemen charging and running down the unorganized wildlings, Jon seeing the fiery stag banners, hearing the STANNIS! chant, and turning back into the tent.

I'd really expect that last scene to end the episode. If they decided their isn't enough room in Ep. 10 for whatever reason to elect Jon LC and/or have Stannis offer him Lord of Winterfell there's a small chance that all happens this episode too. But it certainly should end with Jon turning back into the tent.

Edited by When Harry met Sansa

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So is Arya going to take on the alias "My Dead Mom of the Canals," just to make it extra clear to the audience that's who she's thinking about?



I liked this episode a lot, actually. The three Tyrion scenes were all fantastic and I think the placement of Oberyn's story about baby Tyrion was more effective here than it would have been earlier. I was particularly happy with the Bronn scene. That played out perfectly, and I'm looking forward to seeing some of his hijinks play out on screen next season. I hope so anyway. Oh, and Hot Pie! For a very brief moment after seeing him and cheering I thought.. wait, are they just bringing him in so they can have him die horribly here? The show has me kind of worried for minor characters getting killed off without affecting the overall story.


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Exactly. With all of Episode 9 set at the Wall they've got plenty of time to do it. I would not be surprised at all if out of the whole 50+ minutes they have allotted for the ep. that STANNIS! STANNIS! STANNIS! takes up 90 seconds or less. After all, there's plenty of other things to focus on.

-There's the scarcrow soldier prepping on top of the wall, as well as barricade and defensive prepping around CB.

-There's the assault on the wall itself from the north. There will be a fight under the gate where Grenn probably perishes in place of Donal Noye.

-There's the skirmish/raid from south of CB. Jon is organizing the defenses and does plenty of fighting. We see Ygritte get shot down by that little boy (Satin, they might even have Jon ask him his name in the show while they're on top of the Wall.) Ygritte and Jon death scene will probably be 5+ minutes.

-There's the continued, secondary assault from the north. Probably will get some scenes from the Wildling camp in here as well where we see their organizational strategy. Would expect the same from the NW camp.

-There's Jon being commanded to go speak to the Wildlings.

-There's Jon in the tent when Stannis arrives. The tent scene will probably be longer but again, I don't expect more than 90s worth of time to see Stannis' knights thundering out of the woods. Expect to hear warhorns, see horsemen charging and running down the unorganized wildlings, Jon seeing the fiery stag banners, hearing the STANNIS! chant, and turning back into the tent.

I'd really expect that last scene to end the episode. If they decided their isn't enough room in Ep. 10 for whatever reason to elect Jon LC and/or have Stannis offer him Lord of Winterfell there's a small chance that all happens this episode too. But it certainly should end with Jon turning back into the tent.

I would love for episode 9 to be all Wall (or mostly so). This was easily my favorite plot in the books, can't wait to see it unfold. I think the series ends with Jon being elected LC. The name of the episode is "The Children", and the theme will probably be all of the 'Children' coming into their own. Bran finds BR, Arya goes to Braavos, Sansa doing whatever Sansa does (lol), maybe even Rickon arriving at Skaagos. If that happens, then I can't see a better way to have Jon come into his own by being elected LC.

Edited by sj4iy

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I would love for episode 9 to be all Wall (or mostly so). This was easily my favorite plot in the books, can't wait to see it unfold.

Oh sorry, I should have been more clear-it's confirmed that all of Episode 9 this season will be at the Wall. :)

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I would love for episode 9 to be all Wall (or mostly so). This was easily my favorite plot in the books, can't wait to see it unfold. I think the series ends with Jon being elected LC. The name of the episode is "The Children", and the theme will probably be all of the 'Children' coming into their own. Bran finds BR, Arya goes to Braavos, Sansa doing whatever Sansa does (lol), maybe even Rickon arriving at Skaagos. If that happens, then I can't see a better way to have Jon come into his own by being elected LC.

There's still so many epic things to happen in Ep. 10 "The Children". Your point on children coming into their own is cool. Don't forget Tyrion killing Shae/Tywin and the latter making him the rightful Lord of CR in the process, thus "coming into his own" in a way. But I would agree that Jon becoming LC would probably be the last scene, unless they end on a darker note and show Dany locking up her dragons after that farmer dude brings back the bones of his child.

Plus I know there's a healthy amount of of speculation that the "children" alluded to can either be Dany's dragons or the Children of the Forest; both are valid arguments. I sort of like your opinion better though now.

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Source?

It's rampant on these forums http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/107790-episode-predictions-book-spoilers/

but WiC has the plot summaries and Ep. 9 has no information/tease for any char except for Jon. Neil Marshall, who directed "Blackwater" aka S2E9 that was entirely shot at KL, is also the director for Ep. 9 "The Watchers on the Wall". The imbd page for the episode http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3060858/ credits only Dinklage as a character that we know isn't in the NW/Wildlings or with Stannis and co.--they may have just listed him to show as part of the "previously on" or in some flashback. It's likely he doesn't appear altogether.

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There's still so many epic things to happen in Ep. 10 "The Children". Your point on children coming into their own is cool. Don't forget Tyrion killing Shae/Tywin and the latter making him the rightful Lord of CR in the process, thus "coming into his own" in a way. But I would agree that Jon becoming LC would probably be the last scene, unless they end on a darker note and show Dany locking up her dragons after that farmer dude brings back the bones of his child.

Plus I know there's a healthy amount of of speculation that the "children" alluded to can either be Dany's dragons or the Children of the Forest; both are valid arguments. I sort of like your opinion better though now.

Nah man. BR or the children will be the last scene. Probably BR.

They have to end on something fantastical, it's just how HBO has done it for the last 3 seasons.

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In season 3 I felt the Jaime-Brienne scenes eclipsed everything else, but these past two episodes have had so many powerful scenes between actors that it's taken the series to another level. This is the best it's been since season 1 IMO.

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Nah man. BR or the children will be the last scene. Probably BR.

They have to end on something fantastical, it's just how HBO has done it for the last 3 seasons.

Yeah you're probably right. Hopefully they do it justice then and give Bran and co. 10+ minutes of getting to the cave, fighting off the wights, BR's appearance and everything to make it as epic AF as possible. I'd also expect Jon stuff to lead off the episode then; Stannis' victory should be the first scene and pick up where Ep.9 leads off, then Jon elected LC somewhere in the middle-2/3rds portion of the ep.

In season 3 I felt the Jaime-Brienne scenes eclipsed everything else, but these past two episodes have had so many powerful scenes between actors that it's taken the series to another level. This is the best it's been since season 1 IMO.

This. The whole time during the speech in episode 6 and then watching Tyrion quiver when Oberyn is telling him the story I was just thinking, well, here's the material D&D will send in for Dinklage's Emmy nomination this year. Phenomenal stuff. Really I think Jack Gleeson should be nominated as well but we know he'll never get the justice he deserves, unlike Joff.

Edited by When Harry met Sansa

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Nah man. BR or the children will be the last scene. Probably BR.

They have to end on something fantastical, it's just how HBO has done it for the last 3 seasons.

I don't know...I think Jon being congratulated as the new LC would be a great high note to end on. Lady Stoneheart would be a GREAT bombshell to end on, though...but I wouldn't be surprised to see her sooner.

/BR is awesome, though

//don't really care as long as we get the next 3 episodes

Edited by sj4iy

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I don't know...I think Jon being congratulated as the new LC would be a great high note to end on.

"The Wall is yours, Lord Snow." would be a great episode capper for sure. But it could be next episode leading to anticipation of the battle.

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Who is the "Mockingbird"? LF, maybe?

Yes. Littlefinger took the mockingbird as his sigil. I think Cersei even comments on this little fact in season 1.

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Who is the "Mockingbird"? LF, maybe?

Yes. He's even wearing a little mockingbird pin

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Yes. Littlefinger took the mockingbird as his sigil. I think Cersei even comments on this little fact in season 1.

Yes. He's even wearing a little mockingbird pin

Interesting, never noticed this.

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Nah man. BR or the children will be the last scene. Probably BR.

They have to end on something fantastical, it's just how HBO has done it for the last 3 seasons.

What was "Fantastical" about Dany being carried around by freed slaves?

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