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[Book Spoilers] EP407 Discussion

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I meant reviews. You can go online the day after an episode airs and find plenty of reviews that draw on the up to date source material without going into the stuff that ranges into spoilers.

If viewers have to read reviews after each episode to figure out what is going on, the TV show is not doing its job.

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Time for Me to Fly by REO Speedwagon.

I knew it was me, not her, but thanks for reminding me of who did the song. I couldn't not sorta hear the music in my head as I was typing the line, Time for her to fly.

Edited by Lady Fevre Dream

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If viewers have to read reviews after each episode to figure out what is going on, the TV show is not doing its job.

If people who arent getting it are still watching the TV show is doing it's job.

That said, I think D & D are making things a lot clearer than in the past. If they make it too obvious there is no suspense.

Book readers certainly have to wait - sometimes several years/thousands of pages to know wth went on at many points.

There are more episodes coming up. As Michelle Fairley said - keep watching.

There ARE reviews out there to get background from and if people go there, then fine. I watched The Master and I am going to have to do a little Google to find out what the heck? Yet it was highly rated. I had to watch Memento a few times and take notes. People can survive a little subtlety and like some people on the forums can wait a week or so to see if confusing events are explained.

ETA: Roger Ebert seems to have had the same take on The Master as I did.

Edited by rmholt

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I will say, not that it's terribly important, but Bronn's book line about icing Falyse really didn't work for the character as developed in the show. He's been made a bit too much of a cheerful rogue. There was a kind of nastiness to the book version that is just absent from Flynn's portrayal of him.

I didn't like the way the line about Falyse was delivered (or the fact that it even existed) but for different reasons. BookBronn is not the one who hurt Falyse, Cersei set all that in motion. The only thing we cannot be sure of is what happened to Lady Tanda, the first fall and the eventual death, but.....old ladies do fall and die from broken hips all the time. Who's to say that Bronn had anything to do with it. It could have been drunken Falyse with the intitial bump of her mother down the stairs.

I don't understand why some think that BookBronn betrayed Tyion anyway. He really wasn't required to die for him, and Tyrion himself understood it. It's just the show has a bit of lighter tone with Bronn's darkest side. For the most part, I was pleased with the cells scenes on the show, I guess I need to double check and see if BookBronn made anykind of cracks like that, that sounded soooooooooooooooooo obvious, anyway. I pretty sure he did, can't say I remember the exact wording, though. I do remember Tyrion wondering if Cersei realized what kind of serpent she is sending to the Stokeworths. It's the manner of dialogue delivery that, at times, makes Bronn seem lighter on the show, but lots of it is similar to the book. It just pisses me off that he seems to be given the blame already for the later mess at Castle Stokeworth when it was Evul Cersei, LOL

ETA: Oops, just remembered, Lady Tanda had an accident with the horse and saddle straps or some such. The old ladies down the stairs came from more modern issues, although......Maester Cressen certainly worried about them.

Edited by Lady Fevre Dream

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The line that made me laugh the most in the whole series was from the Davos chapter:

"Lord Wyman was looking down at Rhaegar as if he were a roach in need of a hard heel"

My favorite chapter in the series hands down. Pure awesome from front to back. Willa's outburst in defense of Stannis. Davos calling BS on the Freys: "What would a Frey know of honor?" "Set Jared I name you liar."

Especially when you get to the Theon chapter when Wyman lies to the Frey's in front of the Boltons and tells them how fond he has grown of the Frey's at White Harbor especially Rhaegar.

Lol calling Robb Stark a vile dog in front of Wyman. I bet Rhaegar did not die well. No sir.

The North remembers.

One hundred times........YES, YES, YES!! That is one of my all-time favorite lines. Hell, I love that line so much.......I'm sure that it has been responsible for at least one reread of ADWD. Tis all. :bowdown:

ETA: Okay, not all. I not only love that line and chapter, I love Davos's entire dungeon tour in the books. It is one of the highlights and has been responsible for getting me through rereads, if not starting them altogether.

Edited by Lady Fevre Dream

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I didn't like the way the line about Falyse was delivered (or the fact that it even existed) but for different reasons. BookBronn is not the one who hurt Falyse, Cersei set all that in motion. The only thing we cannot be sure of is what happened to Lady Tanda, the first fall and the eventual death, but.....old ladies do fall and die from broken hips all the time. Who's to say that Bronn had anything to do with it. It could have been drunken Falyse with the intitial bump of her mother down the stairs.

I don't understand why some think that BookBronn betrayed Tyion anyway. He really wasn't required to die for him, and Tyrion himself understood it. It's just the show has a bit of lighter tone with Bronn's darkest side. For the most part, I was pleased with the cells scenes on the show, I guess I need to double check and see if BookBronn made anykind of cracks like that, that sounded soooooooooooooooooo obvious, anyway. I pretty sure he did, can't say I remember the exact wording, though. I do remember Tyrion wondering if Cersei realized what kind of serpent she is sending to the Stokeworths. It's the manner of dialogue delivery that, at times, makes Bronn seem lighter on the show, but lots of it is similar to the book. It just pisses me off that he seems to be given the blame already for the later mess at Castle Stokeworth when it was Evul Cersei, LOL

I don't get that either he pretty much told Tyrion he would drop his drawers and screw Lolys if that it was a choice between doing that and fighting the Mountain. I adore Bronn both book and series; he also names his child Tyrion just to piss off Cersei :). That was rich!

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I don't get that either he pretty much told Tyrion he would drop his drawers and screw Lolys if that it was a choice between doing that and fighting the Mountain. I adore Bronn both book and series; he also names his child Tyrion just to piss off Cersei :). That was rich!

LOL, I agree, I'm hopeful that ShowBronn will be the father himself now, it seems. I think it was important, the naming, it was Bronn's way of saying he still did have some loyalty to Tyrion, maybe was glad he escaped, and it certainly served by pissing Cersei off. Bronn's delivery is just a bit darker in the books, that's the main difference. I love,too, that ShowBronn was the guy who could pronounce the name of the snooty author of that book. That was a nice touch for the tv character, that and his explainations about what war is really like, sieges included. I'm actually really surprised that Bronn did get the Lollys treatment already, as I was wondering if he'd accompany Jaime. Still, I suppose Bronn could be part of Cersei's KL paranoia storyline now. I don't ever complain about extra Bronn on the tv show.

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LOL, I agree, I'm hopeful that ShowBronn will be the father himself now, it seems. I think it was important, the naming, it was Bronn's way of saying he still did have some loyalty to Tyrion, maybe was glad he escaped, and it certainly served by pissing Cersei off. Bronn's delivery is just a bit darker in the books, that's the main difference. I love,too, that ShowBronn was the guy who could pronounce the name of the snooty author of that book. That was a nice touch for the tv character, that and his explainations about what war is really like, sieges included. I'm actually really surprised that Bronn did get the Lollys treatment already, as I was wondering if he'd accompany Jaime. Still, I suppose Bronn could be part of Cersei's KL paranoia storyline now. I don't ever complain about extra Bronn on the tv show.

all could definitely happen; not sure how they will play him accompanying Jamie but anything is possible with the exception of anyone threatening again to turn Ghost into STEW... :P

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Also just a suggestion, not sure if any ones mentioned this yet but could Sana reveal to the lords declarants that she is not in fact his niece, but his bastard and this knowledge may have some how unhinged lysa into jumping. Just a thought I can see something along those lines happening


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Have they called Prince Oberyn the Red Viper yet? Or have they mention anything about his knowledge of poisons?


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Have they called Prince Oberyn the Red Viper yet? Or have they mention anything about his knowledge of poisons?

there was a scene where Tywin was pretty much interrogating the Red Viper earlier in the season and he tells him that it's strange how someone with an extensive knowledge of poisons shows up to Kings Landing and the king dies of poison.

This is the scene in question

Edited by Littlefingers In The Air

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anything is possible with the exception of anyone threatening again to turn Ghost into STEW... :P

YES! i can't believe he's not getting Dire wolf respect....

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So what's going to happen with Brienne next season? Rorge and Biter are dead and the Bloody Mummers don't even exist.

Oh, you are right. There was a whole section about her killing them.

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If people who arent getting it are still watching the TV show is doing it's job.

That said, I think D & D are making things a lot clearer than in the past. If they make it too obvious there is no suspense.

Book readers certainly have to wait - sometimes several years/thousands of pages to know wth went on at many points.

There are more episodes coming up. As Michelle Fairley said - keep watching.

There ARE reviews out there to get background from and if people go there, then fine. I watched The Master and I am going to have to do a little Google to find out what the heck? Yet it was highly rated. I had to watch Memento a few times and take notes. People can survive a little subtlety and like some people on the forums can wait a week or so to see if confusing events are explained.

ETA: Roger Ebert seems to have had the same take on The Master as I did.

Yes, yes, getting ratings is their job. I meant that if you have to refer to reviews and episode recaps in order to understand what is going on, they are not doing their jobs in conveying the story to the audience.

I think they do a good job. I watch with an "unsullied" and they can follow everything that's going on.

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At least they kept in the death from infected bite, even though with different characters. Vargo Hoat's ear by Brienne transferred to The Hounds neck by Biter.


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I didn't like the way the line about Falyse was delivered (or the fact that it even existed) but for different reasons. BookBronn is not the one who hurt Falyse, Cersei set all that in motion.

Bronn didn't kill Falyse in the end, but the line about an accident happening to her is from that scene in the book.

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Yes, yes, getting ratings is their job. I meant that if you have to refer to reviews and episode recaps in order to understand what is going on, they are not doing their jobs in conveying the story to the audience.

I think they do a good job. I watch with an "unsullied" and they can follow everything that's going on.

My point is that audiences might be OK with having to wait for all elements to be revealed, or to review previous episodes, or if not, to go to other sources. The fact that non readers are watching supports that. In fact, no one wants to watch something with no mystery.

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