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[Book Spoilers] EP407 Discussion

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Excellent episode, in my opinion.

Best parts:

- Selyse and Melisandre dialogue. It seems Shireen will have a role to play in the future;

- Tyrion and Bronn dialogue;

- Tyrion and Oberyn speaking about how they met. Pity they didn't put the whole dialogue, when Oberyn tells Tyrion how he believes Tywin murdered Elia and her children to 'pay a debt', since Aerys chose Elia instead of Cersei to marry Rhaegar;

- Robin being Joffrey (I'll make those who bother me fly);

- Lysa Arryn flying (she was bothering me, so...).

Not so good:

- Dario Naharys. I don't think this Dario is as cocky as the other one. He just seems nice;

- New Mountain, who doesn't ride (or act, for all I can tell).

And, by the description of the next episodes on IMDB, I'd say Stannis is not going to reach the wall this season (Mance Rayder isn't in any of the previews so far), but we definetely will have Hazzea!

I stannis dont reach the wall, then the battle for the wall isnt going to happen. If im correct, he and his army is what saves them, right?

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You haven't quoted anything and made assumptions throughout. To the point of an enigma is required for your lack of fact.

I have speculated to the extent of probable. We can see renewings up until work that is written and can physical be constructed into a TV series season. As logical it hasn't be renewed further otherwise this would be public knowledge because the Winds of Winter has not been released yet. If published 2015 or 2016 HBO will likely renew, we would be made aware of. 2015 next year when there have been many expectations however if it is not complete what is not to suggest DWD is extended into another season?

I said GRRM would be hated if this show finalle an ending conjured by HBO prior to anything that the authour has published, released a finalle before his work. I would burn the books

Get your matches ready my friend.

http://tvline.com/2014/03/12/game-of-thrones-ending-season-7-final/

Edited by White Harbors Wrath

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I doubt this series will make up their own endings outside of author's express consent. Why wouldn't Winds of Winter be made into a double series? The same could be done with DWD, possibly further extending till 2017?

GRRM has plenty of time to finish, these absurb remarks on delay are irrelevant. Give him time to finish his within the top 5 of all time fantasy series.

I think most authour's set out, with a game plan, GRRM especially, he is a scriptwriter after all. Meaning he knows how endings, character arc's, will folliow into his universe, but filling in the blanks with interactions to all of the many details which then fit into the entire story, take a lot of hard worker. He was reportedly 3/4 written, now within editing?

I think any ending would be easier to write, if when tying all ending pieces together, had he had a game plan from the start, but don't quote me.

The show making up their own ending would have to be with the authour's express consent.

GRRM would be very hated if the show starts their seasons before his work is released.

I agree with this for the most part but have a few nitpicks:

GRRM is NOT a scriptwriter essentially. He started with stories and novels. The scriptwriting he did apparently he was pretty good at it but it isnt where he started by a long shot.

As to being "hated" if the series goes past the books, bull. People who hate him for that need to get lives.

As the FAQ says:

"What happens if the show catches up with the novels?

Nothing. The executive producers have a broad sense of where GRRM intends the story to go, and can always ask him for more details. They're fully prepared and able to continue on on their own without new novels to guide them."

I dont know that the conditions of the contract are available to anyone but the parties. He picked people who were committed to telling his story. They had to take a test! So I'm confident it will be told and the ending is essential. The guys who made "the Natural" totally changed the movie by changing the ending. GRRM screened these guys and they were already on board. So I am not worried about the ending or significant changes happening at all. They've bent over backward to follow the books.

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Nothing is set in stone. That article was vague at best to create what papers do best. Hype, tension, tabloids, falsifying leaving out some of the facts. I think we will have a much better picture on release of the next book, possibly next year? To the bigger picture here. As far as I can read from that article posted, it is only speculation at this point. Leaving out some of the facts, a broad statement may have been issued, covering the producer's ass at that point. Speculating the source of any unpublished content.



Evidence yet has pointed to what has been released. Showing seasons up until 2016. In line with the published books. The 7th season has not been given a scheduled year, listed. Why would it have been? Later having WoW as a single season, when Storm of Swords has mostly been as 2. WoW is supposedly a longer book?



Vague remarks at best in that internet article previously posted. 7 kingdoms 7 seasons. Maybe he meant to say as doubtful, was 7 books 7 seasons? What about Esos, Dany, beyond the wall, etc. Pull the other one.




A small thought.



If any show writes in their own endings before any written publication is released. Even upon the author expression to desire. The authour is in effect, commiting suicide, to any of the intended literature written. No longer is that same literature holding place of merit, other then being as some fabricated script. The many variations, providing prepublished spoilers ahead of a publication, soiling all intended gains to potential literature.



A theatrical performance. Often only dress up at a fancy costume party for any of those involved, having the imaginarium mostly of being inside a box. Maybe that is the next Gen of generic media, when so are rued by TV. Yes a TV show can really pull it off for the most part. But unlike those words published, bringing their own sense of imgination and desire to any readers. What were we left with, but a script instead of a novel? Produced as an adaptation ahead of the publication. Accordingly to some the above postings, destoryed the readers fantasy, because through an adaptation was always going to be different to any literature.


Edited by Dipsy

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Evidence yet has pointed to what has been released. Showing seasons up until 2016. In line with the published books. The 7th season has not been given a scheduled year, listed. Why would it have been?

The seventh season hasn't been "given a scheduled year" because the show hasn't been renewed for a seventh season. The producers have on numerous occasions said seven seasons, maybe eight. That's the limit.

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Amazon wont let me preorder TWOW so AFAIAC the release date is between now and infinity.



HBO has committed to two more seasons. AFAIAC this means there will be between two and infinity more seasons.


Edited by rmholt

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So we have just been arguing a lot of ass? Nobody can clarify, specifying, how many seasons are going to be made, or when infact the season finale will be released? As I have stated previously.



English was never the spoken language here, being never read, only interpreted. Links to my comments posted, have only clarified what I had said from the start.



I do apologise for some speculation, on seasons leading past renewal, or the time of publication. "I had stated as speculation". I may have been naive to believe in the power of the pen, or not so greedy motives. The truth is literature will always fail if watched before read. No this doesn't create a new market of fan crazed hipsters, watching to read the books. Why read what you have already watched, or when spolied to what is differently been read?



HBO has committed to content, that has been published already, why wouldn't they have been?


Edited by Dipsy

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Just joined...first post....this place is awesome!



To try and be as objective as possible, I cannot imagine the legal fallout if the show reveals the endgame before DOS is published. Wouldn't the publishers of the books all these years sue for an ungodly sum since many less millions of people will now purchase the books? Haven't the publishers and GRRM had this legally and officially included in the original contract (like a non-compete clause)? Wouldn't HBO consider this risk and potential loss?




Subjectively, I understand the essentially expired timeframe for the last two books to come out prior to S7. Unless GRRM has some secret curveball dual-release-faster-than-he-has-for-decades planned, we will have the latter stages of the story told to us by not-GRRM. This, to me will be extremely disappointing and bewildering how somebody could disregard their entire fanbase...


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Why read what you have watched? Are you serious?



That's a terrible way to look at things. Some kid that saw the Lord of the Rings movies should never read the books for the richness of the source material? Same thing with ASOIAF...someone who started with the show but then wants to go back and experience the written word should avoid it because he's watched the show?



I cant count the number of movies I have seen, that once I found out they were based on a book, went back and read the book later. Why is that any different than someone who's read the books first then watches the show...you already know how the story ends either way. It's two compeltely different mediums to enjoy.



You're really reaching on some of this stuff. I understand you want to book to finish first, everyone does. But that's just not realistic. Unless you have just started reading GRRM you know how slow he writes and how fast the show is moving. We can all speculate as much as we want, but there's reality and there's wishful thinking. They usually dont have the same results.


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Just joined...first post....this place is awesome!

To try and be as objective as possible, I cannot imagine the legal fallout if the show reveals the endgame before DOS is published. Wouldn't the publishers of the books all these years sue for an ungodly sum since many less millions of people will now purchase the books? Haven't the publishers and GRRM had this legally and officially included in the original contract (like a non-compete clause)? Wouldn't HBO consider this risk and potential loss?

Subjectively, I understand the essentially expired timeframe for the last two books to come out prior to S7. Unless GRRM has some secret curveball dual-release-faster-than-he-has-for-decades planned, we will have the latter stages of the story told to us by not-GRRM. This, to me will be extremely disappointing and bewildering how somebody could disregard their entire fanbase...

Welcome Danny.

You may have missed it elsewhere, but the shows producers have met with Martin this spring and know everyone's character arcs/ends from the author himself. So HBO isn't in any legal danger of revealing anything.

Edited by White Harbors Wrath

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Why read what you have watched? Are you serious?

That's a terrible way to look at things. Some kid that saw the Lord of the Rings movies should never read the books for the richness of the source material? Same thing with ASOIAF...someone who started with the show but then wants to go back and experience the written word should avoid it because he's watched the show?

I cant count the number of movies I have seen, that once I found out they were based on a book, went back and read the book later. Why is that any different than someone who's read the books first then watches the show...you already know how the story ends either way. It's two compeltely different mediums to enjoy.

You're really reaching on some of this stuff. I understand you want to book to finish first, everyone does. But that's just not realistic. Unless you have just started reading GRRM you know how slow he writes and how fast the show is moving. We can all speculate as much as we want, but there's reality and there's wishful thinking. They usually dont have the same results.

Tolkien was released before any adaptation was, mostly before TV was even in colour. What Peter Jackson has done in humble opion, was relive through restablishing that literature. This has sparked some fury within certain circles on his latest creation the Hobbit. But nothing was ever spoiled for any readers ahead of time, because most had been reading children's stories, completing essay's, on his fantasy literature for generations. Prior to any gratuitous series..

Are you so stupid to assume that a TV series holds a candle to any literature published? When making readers want to read from watching, going out of their way to purchase a spoiled book, from a TV show showing the ending before any written work? Often when TV lasting only a generation before being some out of date DVD. When shown, watched, before the literature is published, destroying those readers gains..I agree we are in a new age of next Gen reality, where everything comes from a box. Creating squares who watch to read, rather then them diving into real page turners. But the point made is nobody will merit this with any actual status, if infact it has been spolied by watching it first.

In your statement you have no concept of what an actual book is. The joy of experiencing what the pictures from each word mean to each and every reader. These were only ever somebody other's dress up, to be spoiled prior to the novel publication. Why would you read any book upon knowing it's ending. Are you mad?

You haven't proved as fact, anything yet. HBO haven't provided their ending season yet. You have linked internet speculation. Can you assure me when the conclusions will be offered. When the finales will be made, on both the novel publication and ending season?

Edited by Dipsy

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Why read what you have watched? Are you serious?

That's a terrible way to look at things. Some kid that saw the Lord of the Rings movies should never read the books for the richness of the source material? Same thing with ASOIAF...someone who started with the show but then wants to go back and experience the written word should avoid it because he's watched the show?

I cant count the number of movies I have seen, that once I found out they were based on a book, went back and read the book later. Why is that any different than someone who's read the books first then watches the show...you already know how the story ends either way. It's two compeltely different mediums to enjoy.

You're really reaching on some of this stuff. I understand you want to book to finish first, everyone does. But that's just not realistic. Unless you have just started reading GRRM you know how slow he writes and how fast the show is moving. We can all speculate as much as we want, but there's reality and there's wishful thinking. They usually dont have the same results.

i agree with a lot of this...not to sound too geeky, but I read the Harry Potter books and saw the movies...the depth in the story in the books faaaar surpasses the movies...

for something like ASOIAF, yes i suppose knowing what comes next definitely spoils a lot of the suspense but i dont think thats any reason for not enjoying it at all...

infact i actually saw S1 before i read the book, I did not enjoy it any less knowing ned starks losing his head...i read the books then to see how different it was from the show...before i started reading them, i thought i would just read each book after each season finishes...but reading the first got me so hooked that i didn't stop till all 5 were over....then i re-read them again...

ever since i found out that there were 5yrs between ASOS and AFFC then 6 between AFFC and ADwD, i knew show is gona overtake the books...i'm definitely gona keep watching the show as it airs and then finally when the books come out, will re-read 1-5 again and then continue on to 6....7's probably gona be another 4-5 years from now....sorry to use the cliche...but the show must go on :thumbsup:

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infact i actually saw S1 before i read the book, I did not enjoy it any less knowing ned starks losing his head...i read the books then to see how different it was from the show...before i started reading them, i thought i would just read each book after each season finishes...but reading the first got me so hooked that i didn't stop till all 5 were over....then i re-read them again...

I saw S1 and S2 before reading the books, and then powered through them like a kid in a candy store. What I liked best about that was being able to picture the characters as well as kind of hear their voices while getting used to GRRM's writing style.

Edited by dannyk65

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Welcome Danny.

You may have missed it elsewhere, but the shows producers have met with Martin this spring and know everyone's character arcs/ends from the author himself. So HBO isn't in any legal danger of revealing anything.

Thank you.

Interesting that the publishers wouldn't have iron-clad exclusivity rights to the story, isn't it? Maybe HBO is kicking down some $$$ to them behind the scenes...

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Interesting that the publishers wouldn't have iron-clad exclusivity rights to the story, isn't it?

Not really "interesting". They would have exclusive rights to the written works, but that wouldn't say anything about other media.

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Next generation of crazed hipsters who read from that same phone they have streamed in subtitles off. No real surprise at today's blight on culture from technology that is already out of date...



The series made you read the book? Shead a tear for the illiterate. Funny how season 1 followed the book chapter for chapter apart from the lenghty riverun conflict, when winning awards for that season. How it went on separate courses from there.



As nothing concrete has been proven outside speculation. I will naively hope that the world is a better place, not ruled by greed..



Why even have a spolier based topic on this forum? I hope they all die in the end, now....


Edited by Dipsy

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I saw S1 and S2 before reading the books, and then powered through them like a kid in a candy store. What I liked best about that was being able to picture the characters as well as kind of hear their voices while getting used to GRRM's writing style.

i felt the same...it allowed me accept the casting choices a lot more easily as well for so many of these characters...

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God bless the internet. Just saw a picture of Jaime at Winterfell with Bran in the window next to a picture of Petyr and Lysa at the Moon Door. In addition to weddings, spying on other's l'amores also seems dangerous to one's gravity. I feel so dumb for not noticing before.


Edited by Alayne Stone

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