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[Book Spoilers] EP407 Discussion

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Seriously? This has easily been the most well-paced season of the series. We're spending so much time with these characters instead of just jumping around from camp to camp and adding every character into every episode that hurt season 2 so much.

This season has exceeded expectations for me. Everything they're doing is so fantastic.

I agree 100%

Look at the stuff we have been treated with...

* Liberation of Mereen (Nice, quick and simple. Better than the books)

* Purple Wedding (Loved every minute of it)

* White Walker Babies!!! (SPOILERS!!!!)

* The Liberation of Craster's Keep (More interesting than book version)

* The Trial (Maybe the best GoT performance in the series)

* Moon Door.

This season has been stacked and there has been little down time.

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It looks to me like they're speeding up Brienne's quest in the show vs. the book. We may get the Lady Stoneheart reveal at the end of her quest as the final scene in episode 10 this season.

And I say bravo. Because the Brienne storyline was a massive waste of time in the books, and the single worst storyline in the entire ASOIAF series. The more speeding up they do to it the better.

Yep - it had some really good scenes but it was painfully obvious when reading that the entire quest was padding. It desperately needed heavy editing.

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Description of the last episode says that the NW gets help from an unexpected source.

So he gets to the Wall then.

But Mance doesn't help... he attacks!

But I confess I have no idea who's coming from the north to help the NW...

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Against it. He was given Bowen Marsh's lines, and Ser Alliser was given Jon's lines.

Yes. It makes practical sense with a big army about to assault the gate to seal it up so TV Jon is arguing the right course, but it makes little sense for the post wildling assault phase. If they weren't going to do "only Cat" for sake of not confusing the unsullied, will they have Jon do a complete 180 with the changed threat from unified Wildlings to broken Wildlings plus Others?

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I very much wanted to see a whole court reveal of Oberyns choice to defend Tyrion.

I really wanted to see it during the trial. Something like:

"And who will you name for your champion?" Cersie looks smug naming the Mountain. Tywin looking vicious Jamie looking concerned.

Tyrion says nothing. Looking around, semi-panicked.

"Looks like you are all alone, baby brother." Cersie says. Oberyn rises from his seat.

"No. Not alone."

Well as of right now, (in show universe) Tyrion could quite realistically be the only one who knows that Oberyn will champion for him (aside from Ellaria). So we can still hope for an on-screen reveal to the court.

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Solid episode and I need to watch again before I can review. But there was definitely pacing problems. That last scene with Lysa was just...rushed. There should have been more dialogue from Petyr calming her down. Even non book readers knew what to expect when Petyr said he only loved one woman.

Also, what was that with Daario? There was no build up to that at all. Just queen Dany getting horny. If they spent a scene or two in prior episodes where maybe Dany confides with Missandei about being attracted to him, I could stomach the scene more.

Surprising they took out Rorge and Biter, but whatever. No big deal.

Loved the Oberyn/Tyrion scene. Was wondering if they would mention Oberyn's visit to CR, and they did. So cool.

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So Rorge and Biter are dead that quick? I didn't like that at all, odd choice.

Ya that was really bizarre. To reintroduce 2 tertiary characters that many probably don't remember that well from the 1st/2nd seasons for a brief instant and to off them in that awkward manner was just weird.

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Shireen isn't getting burned. Either Stannis or Davos will save her. Shireen will be going to the wall with Stannis and crew.

Oh I don't think it would happen mow, but having Mel say there is a purpose in her going with them to the Wall does give me at least some concern. Mel's purposes aren't always good.

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It's been a long time since this show has given us a truly epic "slap the shit out of someone" moment. Good, loud, crisp, worthy to stand beside Tyrion/Joffrey I and Tyrion/Joffrey II. I think I love everything about that scene, like even the lighting and the camera angle and how Sophie Turner's hair seemed to be the only thing with any color in it. I can -- and have -- praised all the child actors on this show all day long, and they're all really good but even in all that gushing praise there's still room for more. I don't even remember his name but the kid playing Sweetrobin is, like the rest, pitch perfect. Right mix of dorky and ADD and spoiled little shit and total weenie, he's fantastic.



We got the stinker lines we knew were coming out of the way in this episode. "Nothing is just nothing" and "they can live in my new world or they can die in my old one." The respective actors did their best to save as much of them as they could.



Speaking of Dany stuff, did y'all catch that bit Jorah said? "I wouldn't be here if Ned Stark treated me like you are treating the masters." HO LEE SHIT. A retcon, but that's a darn good one. Jorah's sticking around Dany for way longer in this continuity and his voice of reason is staying reasonable for far longer, as well, so I welcome this brief moment of Dany hearing the pro-Ned message. Even if ultimately Dany shouldn't have it stick.



I was NOT expecting Hot Pie to show up again, and at first I got impatient with him taking all this time to wax poetic about food and the preparation thereof, and then it hit me: it's not a deviation from the source material, it is the TRUEST ADHERENCE to the source material. A big, long, pointless, enthusiastic food derail. It needed to be there. Really, to recreate the book experience he needs to show up and do that every episode from here on out.



LOLLYS STOKEWORTH EXISTS. Good for her.



The big ongoing mystery, of course, remains WHOSE EAR WILL BRIENNE BITE OFF? Gwen Christie promised us it was coming. The early frontrunner, Locke, got his neck Hodored. Tonight another contender drops, oddly enough once again due to a Hodored broken neck. We didn't hear his name, but they showed him in the "previously on" section and he showed up with Rorge, and he bit Sandor Clegane in the neck, so I presume that was Biter. And I presume Sandor will turn into a vampire instead of a gravedigger in this continuity now. Just kidding. Maybe?



Admit it. You thought HBO was going to have Mel and Selyse have sex. My personal headcanon takes a bit of a hit as Melly wasn't sporting her ruby choker, but if I closely rewatched old episodes I'd probably notice this isn't the first time.



So we won't be getting the "rape an innkeeper's daughter, demand change for a silver" buildup for Gregor The Mountain to cement him as the evilest most terrifying motherfucker walking GRRM's Green GRRth. Maybe that's for the best. I suppose the training montage/promo package of him splitting dudes in half with swords will be enough. And Pedro Pascal as Oberyn reminding us that he's been looking to wreck Gregor's shit for years. Was disappointed we didn't get the veiled "your father... may not live forever" threat, but then Davos and The Iron Bank basically told us Tywin Was Going To Die last week so maybe it doesn't matter. Anyway, the Pay Per View Main Event is set between The Viper And The Mountain and we get an extra week of wait and unsullied speculation.



For the fifth consecutive episode, The Roose Was Not Loose. Definitely the weak point of this season.



Sansa are you seriously going to walk right up to the edge of Deathtrap Ex Machina like that do you have rocks in your head okay seriously folks anyone who ever wants to argue that Sansa is less of a Stark than the rest of them SHUT THE FUCK UP because that's daddy's Utter Lack Of Self-Preservation Instinct on glorious display. Sansa is a True Stark. Well, okay, except she survived, that's rather un-Starky of her.



I really wanted "Only Cat." Most of us did, by the looks of it. But we got the shove, at least. Not sure how they're going to work around the lack of a patsy to pin it on. I guess the story has to be Lysa Slipped On A Banana Peel. Lords Declarant are going to show up next week and the first impression of them will be "complete morons" because they'll have to buy that story. Ah well. Kate Dickie's Watch Is Ended, and she was a fantastic Lysa Arryn-Tully. Every bit as bugfuck crazy and fatally smitten with LF as I ever imagined. I hope she got to keep that fake boobie from Season 1.



And the banana peel of doom is on its way to the Iron Islands to finally pay off Leech #3



Oh hey, Jon Snow has a good idea and the senior members of the watch aren't listening. I'm sure that's the last time that will ever happen. Too bad for them being a moron DOES get you killed in this story. Slynt is such a great slimy little kiss ass shit, he gets one line an episode and he wrings maximum smarmy shitheel out of that one line, hats off to him. I'm gonna have a cigar on the night of the episode where Jon kills him. And that's one more line than Dolorous Edd got this week. For shame.


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Oh I don't think it would happen mow, but having Mel say there is a purpose in her going with them to the Wall does give me at least some concern. Mel's purposes aren't always good.

I agree. It's disturbing.

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I very much wanted to see a whole court reveal of Oberyns choice to defend Tyrion.

I really wanted to see it during the trial. Something like:

"And who will you name for your champion?" Cersie looks smug naming the Mountain. Tywin looking vicious Jamie looking concerned.

Tyrion says nothing. Looking around, semi-panicked.

"Looks like you are all alone, baby brother." Cersie says. Oberyn rises from his seat.

"No. Not alone."

Yes I would've liked that a lot too. I think for the sake of entertainment that it would've been more shocking and intense if he would've revealed it in front of everyone. One of my favorite scenes in the book.

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Maybe LF will tell them that she fell on accident.

The scene with Oberyn pleased me so much. I'm so happy they included the story about Oberyn's visit to Casterly Rock. That's something that was in the books that told me exactly how bad Cersei is.

After watching this, I want the Hound to get revenge on his brother so badly....sigh...

I have a feeling in a future book that the gravedigger on the Quiet Isle and Ser Robert Strong will have a duel to the death.

Give it time.

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Shireen isn't getting burned. Either Stannis or Davos will save her. Shireen will be going to the wall with Stannis and crew.

Ummm... they're not going to burn her now. You do know what happens in the very last Jon chapter in ADwD, don't you?

I am really getting worried they will have to burn her to save Jon. Honestly, I would rather see Jon die for good if Shireen is the price.

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Kinda funny that The Dreadfort is on the map -- despite no scenes there this week -- and The Eyrie remains off, despite being prominently featured this week, and having previously been an opening credits map location, which would in theory make it easier to add back in than adding a new location from scratch.



We didn't go to Braavos either of course but I don't care because that coin rolling down the slot is dear to me. :)


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