How would you rate episode 407?

[Princess of Ice and Fire]

I gave it 8. I enjoyed it and so did my unsullied husband. He immediately worked out that Littlefinger was about to send Lysa flying. I enjoyed most of the episode better than when I read it. Tyrion and Oberyn was a masterly display and I enjoyed Bronn's new clothes.

[Prince of the North]

First 9 of the season for me. The weakest stuff was either very brief (the Gregor scene, which was just too cliche to take seriously) or not all that weak at all (mostly it was just kind of weird, like the Rorge scene where he just sort of stands there and has a chat and then dies; I'm thinking Sakharov is homaging something, maybe something from Kurosawa I keep thinking), and the strong stuff was really, really strong (Pedro Pascal hits it out of the park in this one!)

I gave this episode a 10. That's mainly because it's the first time this season that I literally said to myself as the episode was ending: "Finally! An episode that I don't have major nitpicks with!" I agree with you about Gregor. If anything that scene had the opposite effect than was intended for me. Rather than being "scary" it was laughable. Gregor is imposing enough just sitting in a chair - there was no need to have him slaughtering untrained smallfolk :rolleyes: I also agree with you about Pedro Pascal. I thought that was a great scene.

I haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if this has already been discussed ad nauseum. But what do people think about Rorge and Biter being killed in this ep? Does that add support to the idea that Lady Stoneheart may be written out of the show? Or, at the very least, that much of Brienne's Feast for Crows activities will be skipped?

[AnotherCrannogman]

I am not sure lady stone heart plays a role that is required. They could easily cut that story. I think they will. The actress said she is not coming back so that hints at it too.

[King Tommen I]

First episode I didn't enjoy an Arya/Hound scene, the dialogue during the gift of mercy was cringeworthy, and the random way Rorge and Bitter show up and die in 10 seconds was lame. Also the season is almost over and Sandor hasn't even mentioned Sansa, not even once, wtf?

The Eyrie scenes were great, Sophie was amazing as always, but who is going to be framed for Lysa's death? That little detail left me with a bad taste for what it could have been a great ending.

Brienne and Pod, whatever...there was Hotpie!!! Best part of the episode :P

Tyrion/Jaime and Tyrion/Bronn were ok, but I think Bronn should have explained what the hell happen with Shae :dunno:

Oberyn was ok, but once he started telling the story I was hoping they mention the reason why the Martell went to Casterly Rock, but they're probably saving that for next episode.

Edit: change my vote to 7

I like your synopsis and agree with 90% of it, in particular the Bronn/Tyrion scene...Bronn had some splaining to do!!!

OTOH, I thoroughly enjoyed the Oberyn/Tyrion scene...damn I'm gonna miss Oberyn!!

(I hope you're right about him giving the reason for their trip to CR)

Jamie/Tyrion was superb as usual...those two actors really click together and you just feel like they could actually be brothers.

The first Hound/Arya scene was pretty good up until the "ambush"...weak sauce! The second scene was great. Have gone from despising the Hound to totally loving the character...another one I'm going to miss!

Wasn't as big of a fan of the "Hot pie" as you were, scene was a total snooze...sorry.

Same goes for the intro of The Mountain. I didn't feel dread or was impressed with him other than his size. Slaughtering guys who obviously were not trained combatants didn't impress me much. Sure, the character is pure evil and will kill anyone for anything, but I was hoping for a little more to that scene than what we got.

The Eyrie was only so-so....."your sister" instead of "only Cat"....wth???

Grade: 8/10

Edited May 19, 2014 by King Tommen I

[Lady of the Veil]

9 -- I enjoyed the intriguing aspects such as and in this order:

a. Trial By Combat! All seemed lost when Tyrion realized Cersei got to Bronn. Not sure he could handle the Mountain (Se Gregor) anyway. The Viper on the other hand is fueled by revenge and retaliation. He's no physical match for Ser Gregor but Prince Oberyn must have some tricks up his sleeve as a Master Poisoner. Anyway that story he told Tyrion showed just how sick and toxic Family Lannister is and if Tyrion EVER gets out of this one I do hope he vacates King's Landing once and for all!

b. Lyssa Out the Moon Door -- But prior to that at long last we know Littlefinger lusts after Sansa the Cateyln Stark sex surrogate. How will they ever explain what went down though? I saw the teaser with Sansa addressing a council of sorts and saying that Lord Baelish was "lying" and something about she must tell the truth. Hmmm (Thoughts?)

c. Love the burgeoning brutality of Arya! The Hound's backstory is pretty good. He was the unfavored one compared to the Mountain? Always wondered how he got that scar. Thought ot was in battle come to find out his own bro did it to him! (P.S.) I really want Arya and Sansa to re-connect!

d. Lady Brienne keeps denying she's a Knight. Like Hotpie (basically) said if it the shoe fits, wear it. Thought it so sweet that Hotpie sent a Direwolf "yummy" to Arya via Lady Brienne and Podrick. Podrick is generally right, though....Brienne got lucky this time but no need to run off at the mouth about the Quest for Arya.

e. Bored by Dany + Daario scene. Why not just show the sex? Oh that's right, Emilia Clarke will no longer drop trou for the cameras! (LOL)

f. Melisandre and Selsye bonded over the bath? So what's up with Melisandre wanting to bring Stannis' deformed child into the magic fold? Carice Van Houten always did nude scenes, she's European but normally she does full frontal, that was some years ago though. I recall a scene in a movie where CVH was shown dying her pubes to match her blonde hair in some holocaust-war themed movie. She basically played a Mata Hari type.

g. Jamie is now cool with me until he starts shaggin' his sis. (Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!) Twincest does not rule.

[lord ross of house stark]

Where was marimillion when lysa went flying

[Beric175]

9/10, just for Bronn, The Hound, Oberyn, Tyrion, Sansa and even Littlefinger all hitting it right out of the park with their performances. All the sansa stuff this year has been very well done and while I've seen some unsullied complain about sansa getting bratty again over "just a snow castle" I can seethat all the anger that has built up in her under Joffrey she unleashes onto Sweetrobin who while not exactly a 100% douche like Joffrey, is being very arrogant and douchey at least in the moment. While he is right that a small tower is no big deal and that he did not "ruin" it, he still was petulant and impulsively aggressive when she lashed out at him. In one sense I cannot totally condemn him but I can understand sansa more, given her present situation and the awareness that she has of it in general. I could see that when he came to her she wanted to be alone with her memories of a sweeter time and the moment was ultimately ruined by him showing up at all, given that he so nonchalantly talked to her about her family's death the moment they met. It frustrates me a little that the subtle scènes with sansa that are open to interpretation are usually reduced by the unsullied viewers as bratty teenage behavior, not considering that she has had a rough time at the vry least recently, with being aware of people's belief as to her implication in Joffrey's death, the death of Ser Dontos, who she arguably saved from death and the destruction of Winterfell that we are always reminded of in the opening credits because it is a permanent thing to her as well and it's tough to get over a loss like that one. I think we can take away from this that sansa is starting to stand up for herself more, just because she's done dealing with petty little psychos like Joffrey and Robert.

Now Littlefinger's move here is interesting, not just because we are not sure if he is expressing feelings for sansa in the book, for Catelyn or if he is even expressing any true feelings at all here, given that having Lysa freak out over this kiss (and he knows that Robert will go straight to her to bring her here) and try to have Sansa killed is the perfect way for him to act on what we already suspected in episode 5: his absolute distaste for Lysa that he only puts up with because it allows him to marry into a powerful family with control over a region as of yet untouched by the war. He will be Lord protector of the vale once she dies. So either it's a fit of passion, in which case he forgot himself with sansa, which goes against much of what we know of this calm and usually careful man, or it was a planned move to provoke in Lysa exactly the kind of reaction she ended up having. I also would like to point out that Lysa implicates herself in the deaths of Sansa's mother and Sansa's uncle Jon so the confession scenario came about in a different way for which I am very grateful. I don't even mind them leaving out "only Cat" because that's them putting their spin on the story and it changes nothing between him here and the books if he says "your sister". The effect is the same and apart from a nod to the books, nothing gets lost.

I didn't think we'd get Oberyn telling the story of Tyrion as a baby but it was well-written, well-acted and well-placed because Tyrion is in a tough spot right now and both this, Jaime's and Bronn's scenes were wonderful in communicating his growing despair so that when Oberyn offers his service to Tyrion, it's a wonderful moment of hope....that will get crushed in 2 weeks sadly and I will be very sad because Pedor Pascal, Martin and the writers for the show have made him an excellent character on the show and treated the character with a lot of respect, which I am very thankful for.

The Jon scene once again emphasises what a bully Alliser Thorne is to everyone around him and it is a good way to build the tension because we know that in episode 9 a giant will come running though that tunnel and we'll go "had you guys just paid a bit more heed to Jon's warnings".

I never thought reading AFFC that Brienne was brilliant and it's nice to see that she sort of has to rely on Pod to some extent and the inconsistencies like her asking for sansa Stark in public are pointed out as a bad approach by Pod later so it makes him more useful because otherwise Brienne does not really need him so it justifies his presence. Anyone else thinks it's like Sancho Panza and Don Quixote?

The Arya and the Hound scenes were both fine (even though I would have preferred seeing Brienne dispose of Rorge and Biter but whatever, at least the Hound got wounded badly enoug to "die" of the festering wound in the next episode). It's also great to have the Hound tell his own story and we at least now know the father's involvement in all of this, which mirrors Tywin's treatment of Tyrion when compared to Jaime, something Tyrion even points outat the beginning and we can already see that he is getting insulting with both Bronn and Jaime to some extent. For now he will still hold back to some extent but once Jaime reveals the Tysha bit we'll get the more questionable and angry Tyrion for sure.

the only slight misstep was the Melisandre scene but it added flavour to characters who we otherwise never see interact and the nudity would not be a problem for Selyse other than the fact that she might be jealous of melisandre or was the idea of Mel talking about magic tricks and illusions mixed with the image of her youthful body meant as a nod towards her glamour, since she is actually using magic to keep herself younger than she actually is?

Is it wrong that I enjoy Cersei walking though the guts of dead prisoners? NB: the new Mountain is HUUUUGE.

[Pablosplinter]

7. All of the Tyrion stuff was excellent. The Brienne scene was quite good. The Wall I didn't like. Mel scene was poor and useless.

Getting sick of Arya/Hound just wasting time.

Disappointed with the end, as 'Only Cat' would have been much more epic imo.

[Ugly Little Girl]

10.

Just perfect, and oh! The feels!

[DolorousKim]

This episode had quite a few crucial scenes, and the pressure was on the show to deliver in an epic fashion. In my opinion, they completely nailed every one of the key scenes. I rated this episode a 10, the first "perfect" score that I've given since Season Two's Blackwater. This is my favorite episode so far this season, and is easily in my top 10, perhaps top 5, for the series overall.

What really, really worked for me:

• My top slot has to go to the Tyrion/Bronn farewell scene - This scene is my "building the snow Winterfell" scene, so I was really anxious for the show to get this one right: I can happily state that I was not disappointed in the least. Both Dinklage and Flynn were perfect in their performances -- the emotional level was subtly and deftly built throughout the scene, both verbally and non-verbally (the awkward body language and lack of the trademark smirk on Bronn's part, for example). By the end, the scene succeeded in conveying the fact that the two shared a friendship far beyond the employer/mercenary relationship that they started out with, and did so without descending into cheesy over-sentimentality. I was actually more moved by the show scene than by the book scene, which is not something that I find myself saying often.
  
• My second slot goes to the Oberyn/Tyrion cell visit - Is Peter Dinklage having a great year, or what? His performances for the past two weeks have exceeded my ability to come up with new descriptive superlatives. And the best part? Pedro Pascal absolutely matched the lofty level of Dinklage's performance every step of the way. Great, great scene!
  
• My third slot goes to the Arya/Hound scenes - I've said it before, and I'll undoubtedly say it again before this season is out, but the dynamics of the Hound/Arya relationship are probably my favorite of the whole show this season. To me, these two are like fierce warriors from opposing tribes - they respect each other, even have some regard for each other, but at the end of the day, they are on different sides, and can't ever really be allies in the long term. Maisie Williams and Rory McCann were superb yet again this week. Unlike what others have stated above, I really enjoyed the gift of mercy scene, even if it was a shade less strong than the scene featuring The Hound's confession of how he received his injury at the hands of his brother. I also thought that whoever the gentleman was that played the dying man did a wonderful job with his portrayal. Both scenes really pushed the correct emotional buttons for me.
  
• My Fourth slot goes to the Sansa/Peter/Robin/Lysa scene - Despite a few minor changes (minor to me, anyway), I really thought that the show did justice to an incredibly powerful set of scenes from the book. Aidan Gillen's performance has has gotten a lot of criticism on this site, but I thought that he was wonderfully creepy and pitch-perfect as pervy Peter this week. Kate Dickie is so damn convincing as crazy Lysa that if I ever should happen to bump into this actress walking down the street in real life, I would probably cross to the other side.
  
• My Fifth slot goes to Jaime's visit to Tyrion - Like Peter Dinklage, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau is also having a stellar year, and through the performances of these two, this scene really drove home just how desperate life has gotten for the Lannister boys, and just how desolate of hope the unfolding of events have become for them as well. It also served as a reminder of how strong the bond of brotherhood has remained between these two. Wonderful scene!
  
• My Sixth and final slot goes to Iain Glen, for delivering a stupendous rendition of "why you just can't kill all of the slavers that you see." It's about time that the actor got to sink his chops into some real dialogue for a change. He was so good, that he all but blasted Emilia's one-note "bad-ass teenaged conqueror-queen" vocal inflection out of my memory, and saved the Meereen scene from being laughably bad.
  

What didn't work for me:

• The only criticism that I have regards Emilia Clarke's sudden inability to change her vocal inflection regardless of the nature of the dialogue that she's delivering. Whether she's trying to seduce a sellsword or asking for advice from her most trusted friend, everything sounds like she's issuing an order in a tone of voice that's overcompensating for the fact that she's just a clueless young woman who no one would follow if she didn't have dragons. We've seen her perform far, far better in the past, so what gives?? It's like we're right back to her second season performance, which was a huge step back from her first season performance, but where she at least had the excuse that she had nothing to do but wander around in the wastelands spewing about being the "blood of the dragon, etc., etc...
  

[aFeastForDragons]

9/10

Oberyn and Tyrion was incredible. Best scene they've ever done in the show. You could really feel the emotion.

Hot Pie and the inn was really good

Arya and The Hound was great. Little disappointed with killing Rorge and Biter since they play quite a big part in AFFC but with the Bloody Mummers not in it they can be killed.

Selyse and Mel was good. A little to cryptic but at least they don't say where it is they are going.

The Dany scene was good. A little to evil though. Dany's not supposed to be "Blood and Fire" yet and I don't remember her diving into bed with Daario so easily.

Dany and Jorah was great.

All in all a great episode.

I haven't watched the last 10 minutes though.

Edited May 19, 2014 by aFeastForDragons

[rmholt]

I am not sure lady stone heart plays a role that is required. They could easily cut that story. I think they will. The actress said she is not coming back so that hints at it too.

She did not say that. She teased a little. Right now she's busy killing people in events that happen in real time. Maybe she doesn't know - though D&D no doubt know.

[Carey Snow]

Great show. Sansa's snow castle is one of my fave chapters in the books, and they did a great job with it. When Sansa is building Winterfell I cried a little (of course I cried more in the books where you get her inner thoughts). Dany was awesome, loved Arya and the Hound. Very good episode.

10 for me.

[Carey Snow]

9/10

Oberyn and Tyrion was incredible. Best scene they've ever done in the show. You could really feel the emotion.

Hot Pie and the inn was really good

Arya and The Hound was great. Little disappointed with killing Rorge and Biter since they play quite a big part in AFFC but with the Bloody Mummers not in it they can be killed.

Selyse and Mel was good. A little to cryptic but at least they don't say where it is they are going.

The Dany scene was good. A little to evil though. Dany's not supposed to be "Blood and Fire" yet and I don't remember her diving into bed with Daario so easily.

Dany and Jorah was great.

All in all a great episode.

I haven't watched the last 10 minutes though.

the last 10 minutes are great.

[RhaenysBee]

Somewhere between 8 and 9, but I just went with 8.

I just missed that mind blown feeling. And I also got the impression that it was pretty repetitive. And then there were the absolute filler scenes. Yes. I'm glad I went with 8. It was amusing though, made me laugh out loud a couple times. Sophie Turner was amazing in the garden scene, Cersei was finally truly Cersei. I really liked Bronn and Tyrion and Hot Pie is a sweetheart.

[GeorgeIAF]

Gave it a 8 , really enjoyed it , good episode to set up what's next

[sj4iy]

I am not sure lady stone heart plays a role that is required. They could easily cut that story. I think they will. The actress said she is not coming back so that hints at it too.

Yet Lene Headey posted a pic on her instagram with a picture of stones shaped into a heart. I don't see how Stoneheart gets cut, she's too important to Brienne and Jamie's plot line. Of course Michelle Fairley said she wasn't coming back...her character is supposed to be dead. That's the point XD

[sj4iy]

Inexplicable change of Jon being the one advocating sealing up the Wall, but that's neither here nor there.

I don't think it's inexplicable. In the books, Marsh wanted to do it well after the war with the Wildlings was over. Here, Jon's advocating doing so makes sense given what they are facing.

[Ran]

400 votes in, 8.32 average, 9 median, 8.45 normalized average.

[Shebara]

Gave it a 10, for me personally the best episode so far - even did beat the Nights King.

I personally don t care if the Hizdahr story is altered, I think it will lead to the same point in Mereen, the battle of fire...I think the Harpies story is not soooo important - in any case they did not introduce the Green Grace so far, so I think they will leave it out, but it is not essential for the progress of the story.

Once again I was impressed by the overall brilliant acting! Arya, the Hound, Littlefinger, Sansa, Bronn, Tyrion, the Red Viper...they all rocked!

I was so touched by the sequence of heartbreaking scenes at the end: first the goodbye of Bronn and Tyrion, then the Red Viper and Tyrion (absolutely brilliant!) and then ...one of my favorite scenes from the books - Sansas Snowcastle and Lysas flight...I was close to tears after all those scenes!

Well, now we know how the Hound received his mortal wound, he will die for his fear of fire at last cause he did not let Arya burn his wound. They became pretty close again those 2, the Hound even told her his story!

The only big negative plot for me was the absence of the singer Marillion in the moondoor scene: I wonder what story Sansa and LF will tell to explain Lysas flight....well but it also ends speculations that Marillion is still alive somewhere and still has some role to play....

In any case: for me personally this episode was brilliant!