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How would you rate episode 407?

How would you rate epsiode 407?  

641 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      1
    • 2
      3
    • 3
      8
    • 4
      2
    • 5
      7
    • 6
      17
    • 7
      87
    • 8
      191
    • 9
      225
    • 10
      95


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555 votes, 8.30 average, 9 median, 8.46 normalized average.


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I gave it a 7 initially and after re-watching, I'm sticking with my 7. The Tyrion scenes and the Eyrie scenes were excellent and well-done. I was a bit jarred initially from not hearing "Only Cat", but the scene works really well. I wish it were longer. They could have cut-out that pointless Melissandre scene and added more at the Eyrie. The actress who plays Lysa is amazing.



This episode could have easily been a 9 or 10 had it not been for the Melissandre and Dany stuff. I'm officially bored with Dany's story and her characterization. I'm not buying this new Daario at all and don't think he and Emilia have any chemistry and I'm guessing that's the reason we didn't see them actually having sex, since we know how much this show loves a sex scene or maybe it only likes non-consensual or prostitute sex scenes. Who knows?



I'm always happy to see Jon, but that scene really served no purpose except to inform us how much the men at the Night's Watch (or those in charge) really suck and we already know that. I did enjoy Brienne and Pod's scenes and loved seeing Hot Pie again.



Peter Dinklage killed it this episode. I do think he's on his way to another Emmy and deservedly so. I'm also incredibly impressed by Pedro Pascal. The scene between those two was incredibly moving. If I were judging on Tyrion and Eyrie scenes alone, the episode would be a 10. Melissandre & Dany dragged it down to a 7 for me.


Edited by Mother of Mini Dragons

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This episode could have easily been a 9 or 10 had it not been for the Melissandre and Dany stuff. I'm officially bored with Dany's story and her characterization. I'm not buying this new Daario at all and don't think he and Emilia have any chemistry and I'm guessing that's the reason we didn't see them actually having sex, since we know how much this show loves a sex scene or maybe it only likes non-consensual or prostitute sex scenes. Who knows?

I remember having read somewhere that one actress was refusing to do any more nude/sex scenes in the show. Maybe it was Emilia Clarke, and this would explain why Dany-Daario happened offscreen.

It certainly wasn't Carice van Houten, that's for sure. Though the way they cut immediately from Dany-Daario to Melisandre's bathtub scene seemed to me as if this was supposed to make up for missing on the hot sex scene or something. That was done in very poor taste, IMO.

Edit: spelling

Edited by Hielo y Fuego

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9/10.

This was a great and well-paced follow-up to the previous episode. The last two scenes were just terrific (Pedro Pascal and Peter Dinklage in that scene and Aidan Gillen). I expect three mind-blowing episodes will end this season. Alik Sakharov did very well this year and I also liked those few mentions and references to the characters in the books which are not so important.

Episodes 1-7: 7;10;8;9;10;8;9/10.

Edited by RadoLukacs

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I remember having read somewhere that one actress was refusing to do any more nude/sex scenes in the show. Maybe it was Emilia Clarke, and this would explain why Dany-Daario happened offscreen.

It certainly wasn't Carice van Houten, that's for sure. Though the way they cut immediately from Dany-Daario to Melisandre's bathtub scene seemed to me as if this was supposed to make up for missing on the hot sex scene or something. That was done in very poor taste, IMO.

Edit: spelling

That could be true, but you can do a sex scene and have her covered. Her sexiest love scene was when she was married to Khal Drogo and Emilia Clarke was fully clothed. So I'm not completely buying that they didn't do the scene due to that reason. I can't help but think that it's moreso that EC and whatever his name is that's playing Daario couldn't sell it. I just think a love scene of those two would be really awkward. At the least, they could have shown them kissing. but they didn't. Why? Either they couldn't sell it or they don't like consensual sex scenes on this show.

I don't understand why the show is so adamant about showing sex in such negative scenarios almost exclusively. Really, the only really nice sex scene was Ygritte/Jon and that one time with Dany/Drogo. But they sure love all the rape and prostitute sex scenes. And speaking of Dany/Drogo, they even made that first one into a rape. Ugg.

Edited by Mother of Mini Dragons

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8. Previous ratings 9, 10, 9, 8, 7, 7. Awesome start to the season but it's been slower ever since.

+Tyrion meeting with Bronn, Jaime, and Oberyn. Great dialogue and interaction. Those 4 have been in my opinion some of the most interesting characters to watch this season.

+Mountain being so big. Can't believe he's 6'9''!!

+Dany's outfit

+I was very glad to see that they kept the snow castle scene. That chapter in the books was one of my favorites in the series, it was very moving.

- Few show watchers had any idea who the Mountain was.

- Dragonstone scene.

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8. Previous ratings 9, 10, 9, 8, 7, 7. Awesome start to the season but it's been slower ever since.

+Tyrion meeting with Bronn, Jaime, and Oberyn. Great dialogue and interaction. Those 4 have been in my opinion some of the most interesting characters to watch this season.

+Mountain being so big. Can't believe he's 6'9''!!

+Dany's outfit

+I was very glad to see that they kept the snow castle scene. That chapter in the books was one of my favorites in the series, it was very moving.

- Few show watchers had any idea who the Mountain was.

The snow castle: I liked the length in the book. It was cut pretty short in the show. Robin was portrayed as less of a jerk than in the book - either way his behavior is his mom's fault and I include the shaking sickness since it behaves exactly like pseudoseizures.

The Mountain: This begs the question for non readers: So what? They'll find out and wont suffer from the waiting. Often I find myself watching a show that is not based on a book and I have to wait several episodes to get some questions answered. I think that adds to the show.

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I gave it an 8, lots of solid parts and without storytelling atrocities.

Wall: shouldn't they be in a frenzy, rushing at planning and building their defences? I don't feel the urgency: 100'000 Wildlings are coming. Ok they discussed boringly about the tunnel, but they didn't even start strategy for the Wildlings already on the south side....

Vale: Rushed. Only two episodes and Lysa is gone.

The Vale looks empty.

Brienne: I found it annoying that Pod makes a reasonable point about keeping the mission a bit undercover in such a shifty territory as Westeros, but TPTB turns Brienne's faux-pas in a victory, so she can be all smug with Pod.
I don't care much about Hot Pie but I admit it was nice to see him in the scene.

Dany: That was a curious if not interesting approach with Daario, despite the lack of chemistry. I'm extremely irked that, again, the show doesn't bother to portray sex and nudity where it's plot relevant.
I might be alone in my sentiment: I'm no fan of Ser KnowsItAll (aka Lord Friendzone).

Shallow me: Khaleesie's belly button!

Tyrion/Jaime, Tyrion/Bronn: loved it, plus the scenes showed how Tyrion expected other people to sacrifice themselves for him. Bronn asking when did Tyrion put his life on the line for Bronn was perfect.

Oberyn rocks, Pedro is excellent. But I wished Tyrion hadn't gone misty eyed when Oberyn told about the visit at Casterly Rock, but angry and resentful (at Cersei) instead.

I guess I had enough of Tyrion being too emotional with Shae on the show.

Arya / Hound: same old same old...

Mountain: he's a teddy bear!

Last: I'm bummed by sloppiness of the credits. I don't get it, did they lose the Dragonstone and Eyrie files? They're already designed an programmed. Or does the company charge double for rendering now?

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Wall: shouldn't they be in a frenzy, rushing at planning and building their defences? I don't feel the urgency: 100'000 Wildlings are coming. Ok they discussed boringly about the tunnel, but they didn't even start strategy for the Wildlings already on the south side....

...

Dany: That was a curious if not interesting approach with Daario, despite the lack of chemistry. I'm extremely irked that, again, the show doesn't bother to portray sex and nudity where it's plot relevant. I might be alone in my sentiment: I'm no fan of Ser KnowsItAll (aka Lord Friendzone).

...

Oberyn rocks, Pedro is excellent. But I wished Tyrion hadn't gone misty eyed when Oberyn told about the visit at Casterly Rock, but angry and resentful (at Cersei) instead.

I guess I had enough of Tyrion being too emotional with Shae on the show.

Wall: It seems like they don't believe Jon in regards to the scale of the attack. Janos was openly skeptical a couple of eps ago and the First Builder seemed skeptical this episode. And we know ol' Alliser is skeptical as heck. They seem still to suspect Jon might be working for the wildlings.

Dany: Agree on the lack of chemistry. S3 Daario may not have been the greatest actor, but at least he had presence. S4 Daario is very bland. Having said that I agree eith you that since they show female full frontals on the show it's lame that they don't show male full frontals. This is HBO ffs, not Nickelodeon.

Tyrion: Ooooooh, there was anger and resentment in Tyrion's eyes at that moment. Those weren't tears of mistiness my friend, those were tears of fury.

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The scene with Oberyn was pure magic, the scene with Jaime was serviceable, the scene with Bronn was wonderfully adapted from the book to be in line with the more likeable Bronn of the TV show, and the scene at the Vale checked all the boxes, and the snow castle scene looked as beautiful as I imagined it. A bit more lingering in that moment wouldn't have hurt, but I thought it was fine. The only slight nitpick was the youthfulness of the new Mountain. They should have used more makeup and perhaps a wig to make him look older and more monstrous. But that is a nitpick. Great episode. Show Oberyn is younger than book Oberyn, too, but the actor is so good that I don't remotely care.


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Dany: That was a curious if not interesting approach with Daario, despite the lack of chemistry. I'm extremely irked that, again, the show doesn't bother to portray sex and nudity where it's plot relevant.

I liked the lack of [female] nudity in that scene (and we saw as much of Daario as we did Mel -- T&A, no full frontal). I agree that S4 Daario is way different than Book/S3 Daario. Book Daario is very much in control during sex, in S4, Dany is in control. Dany remaining clothed while having Daario strip down to his collar shows that (in the books, when she tells Daario to strip, he tells her she has to as well). Note that Dany is already fully dressed (in different clothes) when Daario leaves, but he's still rushing to put his clothes back on.

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... and we saw as much of Daario as we did Mel -- T&A, no full frontal) ...

Come on, we've seen much more full frontal of ladies in the show than men, and this would have been the perfect opportunity to balance the ledger. It only made it worse that we lingered significantly longer on naked Mel than we did naked Daario. And let's not even pretend for a second that male T is equivalent to female T. The male gaze to female gaze ratio in this ep was as imbalanced as ever. Admittedly I haven't timed it all out with a stopwatch (yet) but that was how it played to me. I will at least give it that Mel's nudity wasn't the dumb sexposition of earlier seasons, it made sense in context - that she was displaying her power fearlessly to Selyse by refusing to be vulnerable even as she was physically exposed.

It was great to see Dany be clearly the alpha in the dynamic with Daario, but on the downside the S4 version of Daario is much less of a natural alpha than S3 Daario was, so the tension of that dynamic wasn't as fun as it would have been if it had been Ed Skrein she was bossing. And I say that as someone who wasn't particularly a fan of Ed Skrein last year too. It's only now I've gotten to know the new Daario I've begun to think Skrein wasn't so bad after all.

Edited by Davrum

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I liked the lack of [female] nudity in that scene (and we saw as much of Daario as we did Mel -- T&A, no full frontal).

Mel was exposed for 5 minutes, while with Daario if you blinked twice you'd have missed it.

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The Snow Castle didn't bother me but when I saw it I thought "well, yeah, she's a Stark like Bran the Builder".


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Come on, we've seen much more full frontal of ladies in the show than men, and this would have been the perfect opportunity to balance the ledger. It only made it worse that we lingered significantly longer on naked Mel than we did naked Daario. And let's not even pretend for a second that male T is equivalent to female T. The male gaze to female gaze ratio in this ep was as imbalanced as ever. Admittedly I haven't timed it all out with a stopwatch (yet) but that was how it played to me. I will at least give it that Mel's nudity wasn't the dumb sexposition of earlier seasons, it made sense in context - that she was displaying her power fearlessly to Selyse by refusing to be vulnerable even as she was physically exposed.

It was great to see Dany be clearly the alpha in the dynamic with Daario, but on the downside the S4 version of Daario is much less of a natural alpha than S3 Daario was, so the tension of that dynamic wasn't as fun as it would have been if it had been Ed Skrein she was bossing. And I say that as someone who wasn't particularly a fan of Ed Skrein last year too. It's only now I've gotten to know the new Daario I've begun to think Skrein wasn't so bad after all.

1) I don't agree that male T and female T aren't "equal", and a lot of people don't, so I'm not pretending anything. Unfortunately, many tv/movie producers take advantage of the fact that many people do consider male and female T to be unequal, so when creating works that are allowed to show female T go out of their way to do so.

2) From a technical perspective, full frontal male nudity is (for obvious reasons) harder to film for television than full frontal female nudity, so I would prefer no/less male frontal nudity on the grounds that it would take resources that could be better used for other scenes. That said, I don't really *want* any full frontal female nudity, but again, there are times when it takes more effort to avoid than it's worth. I don't want the show to waste anytime figuring out how to add more of either.

BTW, I agree that S3 Daario was Book Daario in ways S4 Daario never could be, so I guess it's better that they didn't try. To be honest, I hate Book Daario so much that I am actually amused by how much they have emasculated him.

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I actually thought the Dany and Daario scene was sexy as hell. They needed to show Dany's gaze travelling down his body to show the subtle change in her arousal as her gaze travels to his crotch. It's a less is more type of thing. If the camera had then travelled to the front and homed in, close-up, on his schlong, I think the scene may have lost its erotic subtlety somehow.



But the nudity ratio between males and females should be equalled, I agree. This is a problem with you guys, though, from the US. In the UK, equal male and female nudity in film and television tends to be the norm. It's not Political Correctness in the UK, so much as a filmic squeamishness about male nudity that's always existed in the States. However, there hasn't been a lot of nudity of any variety this season and I'm hoping that may change.


Edited by The Killer Snark

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1) I don't agree that male T and female T aren't "equal", and a lot of people don't, so I'm not pretending anything. Unfortunately, many tv/movie producers take advantage of the fact that many people do consider male and female T to be unequal, so when creating works that are allowed to show female T go out of their way to do so.

2) From a technical perspective, full frontal male nudity is (for obvious reasons) harder to film for television than full frontal female nudity, so I would prefer no/less male frontal nudity on the grounds that it would take resources that could be better used for other scenes. That said, I don't really *want* any full frontal female nudity, but again, there are times when it takes more effort to avoid than it's worth. I don't want the show to waste anytime figuring out how to add more of either.

BTW, I agree that S3 Daario was Book Daario in ways S4 Daario never could be, so I guess it's better that they didn't try. To be honest, I hate Book Daario so much that I am actually amused by how much they have emasculated him.

1) I used to tell myself the same thing, and I wish it was true, but in the end I had to admit to myself it just didn't wash. I'll just assume you're from Bordeaux and take your word for it :cool4: .

2) It is technically more challenging, but really not significantly so. For skilled filmmakers it's not a big deal at all, and the relatively small amount of extra work it takes to get that right is a tiny, tiny price to pay for equality between the sexes ... if the producers value equality enough.

Edited by Davrum

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Davrum - I appreciate that point. I art modelled once and it was...ahem, very difficult with atractive women drawing me to keep my ahem...attention on being immobile. I'd imagine male actors probably have the same problem, or if they get filmed flaccid there's the opposite problem of them being worried if they're big enough and then having to excuse themselves by saying it was very cold in the studio that day.



It really should be equal, though, just so the nudity in the show isn't catering more or less just to the men.


Edited by The Killer Snark

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I give an 8, I loved some scenes; the Tyrion-Oberyn scene was amazing, for example. I didn't really like the Melisandre one and I expected the last scene to be a liiiiitle more dramatic than it was. :)


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