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[Book Spoilers] Arya and Sandor


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I think the scene in this episode where The Hound does a mercy killing of that old wounded guy is a precursor for how they are going to handle the end of the Arya-Hound relationship. Yeah, in the books she just leaves him to die from his wounds but given that they seem closer in the tv show and the fact that she was helping him with his wounds in this episode, I think we are going to see Arya mercy-kill The Hound rather than walk away from him and leave him to die in anguish.

That's just my 2 cents.

Agree. Now we have four cents. Lol

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I was definitely surprised to see Rorge and Biter, considering theyre supposed to injure Brienne, and thats how she gets introduced to the brotherhood, as Thoros fixes her up.



With them dead, the only other speculation, Nimble Dick perhaps? And the jester-dude (his name escapes me at the moment), maybe she gets saved in that scene, by the Brotherhood.



As far as this mercy killing, setting up the parting Hound and Arya. I don't want to see Sandor receive the mercy killing, it closes the door of the Gravedigger conspiracy, then again, it doesnt look like, witht he pace Brienne and Pod are setting, that they'll even be confronting Quiet Isle, Elder Brother, and the Gravedigger. Im almost certain that whle scenario will be skipped completely, since Sandor and Arya's adventures are becoming mroe of a spotlight.



Primary difference between show and books in regards to Sandor/Arya? Their developing relationship, and "care," for one another. While Sandor's seems genuine, and believable, I can totally see Arya pulling a 180 and stabbing him, leaving him to die. However, they set it up perfectly, that perhaps the Hound "doesnt survive" the bite from Biter. Perhaps it festers, and eventually, i can see Sandor ordering Arya to leave him be to die.



Think Arya with Nymeria, as what Sandor would kind of do to Arya to get her to leave on her own. Arya may fight him at first, that she doesnt want to leave him, and then Sandor maybe says some vile things about Sansa, and purposely tries to piss off Arya, leading to her leaving (him only saying such things to get her to leave and not meaning a word of them).



Still, the timelines are off if he gets discovered by Elder Brother. I think Brienne has to do the nimble dick storyline first, but if theyre gonna include a Lady Stoneheart intro, they better get to that quick, as in, the next episode or two.

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I think the scene in this episode where The Hound does a mercy killing of that old wounded guy is a precursor for how they are going to handle the end of the Arya-Hound relationship. Yeah, in the books she just leaves him to die from his wounds but given that they seem closer in the tv show and the fact that she was helping him with his wounds in this episode, I think we are going to see Arya mercy-kill The Hound rather than walk away from him and leave him to die in anguish.

That's just my 2 cents.

I'd have mixed feelings about that. On the one hand, I always thought her refusal to mercy-kill him in the books was cold. On the other, if she mercy-kills him in the show it would confirm that he's dead in the books.

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I'd have mixed feelings about that. On the one hand, I always thought her refusal to mercy-kill him in the books was cold. On the other, if she mercy-kills him in the show it would confirm that he's dead in the books.

Ah what?

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Ah what?

at first i agree. what the hell is he saying? however

if he's not dead in the books, and returns, he probably has an important role to play. if he dies on the show, they close that door forever. logically, i dont think d&d would do that, and i think George would steer them.

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Ah what?

The theory that he's still alive surely depends on the fact that we don't see him die in the books. Arya rides away and leaves him.

If she mercy-kills him in the show, then we know for certain he's not coming back, as if he does feature in GRRM's future plans, the show runners surely would have been told.

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if he's not dead in the books, and returns, he probably has an important role to play. if he dies on the show, they close that door forever. logically, i dont think d&d would do that, and i think George would steer them.

Well, Bowen Marsh played a far bigger role in the books but he seems to have been cut, being as the actor who played him in season 1 is now playing Othell Yarwyck and Alliser Throne is acting as LC. I don't doubt what happens to Jon in aDwD is still going to happen in the show, but it looks like Bowen Marsh won't be involved with it. Same with Rorge being the 'Hound' that's changed and that played a pretty big role with Brienne meeting up with LS. So why don't you think the show won't change other ways events happen?

The theory that he's still alive surely depends on the fact that we don't see him die in the books. Arya rides away and leaves him.

If she mercy-kills him in the show, then we know for certain he's not coming back, as if he does feature in GRRM's future plans, the show runners surely would have been told.

Well that not quite just the theory he is still alive, we had the Quiet Isle chapter aswell that where the main theories come from and that looks like it been cut from the show too.

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The theory that he's still alive surely depends on the fact that we don't see him die in the books. Arya rides away and leaves him.

If she mercy-kills him in the show, then we know for certain he's not coming back, as if he does feature in GRRM's future plans, the show runners surely would have been told.

Featuring in GRRM's future plans doesn't mean the producers necessarily adhere to them.

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Arya is obviously trying to kill The Hound right now. We all know of her poor sewing... :rofl:

You just made my day :lmao:

Well he did tell her all the horrible things he did and thought about doing before she left him to die. Like how he should have "raped her sister bloody" or something like that. I don't think that will be in the show but a quick Mycha reminder should do the trick.

Agreed. I think Arya will hesitate to give him the gift, which will make Sandor tell her all those horrible things in the hope that she will rage-kill him, only for her to leave him there.

[snip]

Nice parallel with Nymeria there. First the man banishes the wolf, then the dog banishes the man...

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Well, Bowen Marsh played a far bigger role in the books but he seems to have been cut, being as the actor who played him in season 1 is now playing Othell Yarwyck and Alliser Throne is acting as LC. I don't doubt what happens to Jon in aDwD is still going to happen in the show, but it looks like Bowen Marsh won't be involved with it. Same with Rorge being the 'Hound' that's changed and that played a pretty big role with Brienne meeting up with LS. So why don't you think the show won't change other ways events happen?

Well that not quite just the theory he is still alive, we had the Quiet Isle chapter aswell that where the main theories come from and that looks like it been cut from the show too.

The Quiet Isle chapter becomes irrelevant if Arya rams a sword through his heart.

Look, it's possible he could still be alive in the books, working as a grave digger or however the theory goes, but I was hoping he'd actually return and play a an important role in the story. But if Arya kills him on-screen in the show, then he's playing no further role in the story, because GRRM would have told the show runners not to kill him if he was.

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Featuring in GRRM's future plans doesn't mean the producers necessarily adhere to them.

If GRRM has plans to bring Sandor Clegane back into the story you can damn well bet that the producers will adhere to them. I'm sure they'd loving nothing more than to bring the character back at a later point.

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If the hound isn't supposed to be seen anymore, they could change the book ending and let him live and in good terms. Maybe even make a comeback, why not?



And to balance this, they can kill someone who is supposed to live, but again has no impact to the rest of the story.

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Can I just say that Rory did a great job this episode in showing the Hound's growing despair and hopelessness?



"You think you're on your own?" It really hit home for me at that moment. Then him sitting on the rock with his head hanging down. He gives a meek nod of consent when Arya offers to wash and sew his wound. The look on his face as she does so....GAH!


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Can I just say that Rory did a great job this episode in showing the Hound's growing despair and hopelessness?

"You think you're on your own?" It really hit home for me at that moment. Then him sitting on the rock with his head hanging down. He gives a meek nod of consent when Arya offers to wash and sew his wound. The look on his face as she does so....GAH!

He lost quite a few badass points.

I still like him, but I feel he's a lot more vulnerable.

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The Quiet Isle chapter becomes irrelevant if Arya rams a sword through his heart.

Look, it's possible he could still be alive in the books, working as a grave digger or however the theory goes, but I was hoping he'd actually return and play a an important role in the story. But if Arya kills him on-screen in the show, then he's playing no further role in the story, because GRRM would have told the show runners not to kill him if he was.

So something that happens in the show makes a chapter from the books irrelevant, but if something happens in the books it can't be irrelevant to the show? :dunno:

And why do you think GRRM has any say what the show can or can't do?

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Can I just say that Rory did a great job this episode in showing the Hound's growing despair and hopelessness?

"You think you're on your own?" It really hit home for me at that moment. Then him sitting on the rock with his head hanging down. He gives a meek nod of consent when Arya offers to wash and sew his wound. The look on his face as she does so....GAH!

I don't say this often about the show, book purist that I am, but that as a pretty good line. He did a great job, so did Maisie.

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So something that happens in the show makes a chapter from the books irrelevant, but if something happens in the books it can't be irrelevant to the show? :dunno:

And why do you think GRRM has any say what the show can or can't do?

GRRM has no say but he does advise them, we know this. It's been stressed many times that he advises them, and that sometimes they choose to take his advice and sometimes not.

Pretty sure that if he told the show runners that he planned to reintroduce the Hound at a later point, they'd be elated. Just don't see them killing the Hound off (on-screen) unless GRRM has made it categorically clear he has no plans to reintroduce the character.

Very much doubt Arya is going to mercy-kill the Hound in the show anyway so not sure why this discussion has gone on so long.

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GRRM has no say but he does advise them, we know this. It's been stressed many times that he advises them, and that sometimes they choose to take his advice and sometimes not.

Pretty sure that if he told the show runners that he planned to reintroduce the Hound at a later point, they'd be elated. Just don't see them killing the Hound off (on-screen) unless GRRM has made it categorically clear he has no plans to reintroduce the character.

Very much doubt Arya is going to mercy-kill the Hound in the show anyway so not sure why this discussion has gone on so long.

I get the argument going back and forth here. On one hand - some of you are saying the show has been given liberty to do what they choose with interpreting the story ... but on the other hand the point others are trying to make is that IF they show Arya giving The Hound the mercy killing instead of just walking away like in the books then we know for a fact he's not coming back later in the story unless there's another "UnClegane" besides Gregor and that would just be - weird.

However.

Another example to illustrate this argument's point:

In the show - they chose to make Jayne Westerling an entirely different character in Robb Stark's story arc - even with a different name and plot line in that she follows him to the Frey's for the wedding where Jayne did not do so in the books. There was wild speculation that having "Talisa" be pregnant meant that Jayne Westerling in the books must also be pregnant because it's created a whole new plot for the Starks. Wrong. They still killed her. BUT - George hasn't killed Jayne Westerling in the books - not that we know of - and so by killing "Talisa" they seem to have closed that plot line and possible theory of a future for Jayne Westerling in the books. George can't very well write Jayne Westerling as alive and kicking with a baby in her belly if the show writers killed off her counterpart - can they?

Well correlate that to Sandor Clegane. IF there's any (even remote) chance that he didn't actually die in the book - and we have no idea where the last book left off - then they can't possibly have Arya give him a Mercy killing on the show ... it would cause an instant disparity between the show and the book that can't be resolved down the road. Right?

While yes - the show does take different storyline paths (ie Jon Snow's trip to Craster's to kill the mutineers) ... they do seem to always circle back around to the same ending anyways. They don't veer so far off the story in the books that it's un-recoverable next season...

So my point will go to the team that thinks they'll keep it ambiguous like it was in the book and have Arya walk away from the Hound without giving him the mercy.

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I kind of got the impression while reading that her "hating"him was an excuse she told herself for not giving him mercy but I felt as if the real reason was because she didn't want to actually lose another person she had grown close too. Just what I thought but I got have been making that up for myself because I like him. So not really sure

ETA: coz I'm on my phone and pressed reply to early. lol

This. She loved (in a non sexual way) the Hound and couldn't bring herself to kill him.

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I know the foreshadowing in the episode is most likely to do with Arya and Sandor's parting but it could be hinting more at what happens to Arya's story next in the books. They could still have the mysterious ending for the Hound and the foreshadowing would still work. It would be a shame if the Hound is just cut out because if he becomes the gravedigger his story then becomes about peace and recovery and it's a change from the live by the sword die by the sword fate you'd expect for a character like the Hound.


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