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[Book Spoilers] Role reversal on the Wall?


Runaway Penguin

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I think this one deserves a separate discussion. It might look like a detail, but I would say it is important for future up in the great cold yonder.



When discussing how to prepare for the Wildlings, Watch hierarchy prepares to fight - with barrels of tar etc. What does Jon propose? Sealing the gate (even describing how to do it - which is kind of Cpt. Obvious for everyone). He is unhappy with Thorne deciding not to, because the Watch needs to keep ranging.



So... Since when does Bowen Marsh look like Jon Snow? In the books, this argument came later... And it went exactly the other way. It was the First Steward who suggested sealing the gate and it was Lord Commander Snow who overruled it, because of ranging. So... Why the reversal in the show?



One option is to allow Jon to change his opinion after the battle of the Wall, but that seems a bit forced. Really wonder how they will manage to turn the story to get all the conflicts Jon has with "the old guard" in... Unless they decided to focus just on the wildling issue - but that would take the depth off the entire conflict.



It also bears another implication: Thorne and Slynt are for ranging here. That would make Thorne's remarks about Jon sending him on a ranging seem that less believable.



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Well Jon was a whiny teen in S3 and suddenly he became great leader. D&D doesen't really care about things like this. Jon may be against rangings in S4, but it's all forgotten in S5 and stiatuion is like in the books. Just like S3E10 told that Stannis is going to the Wall, but it's all forgotten in S4 (apparently HBO hopes that the audience doesen't remember that and Stannis' arrival to the Wall will be a bigger surprise).


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Yeah, they've pretty much destroyed Jon's entire arc these past two seasons so at this point I'm really not all that surprised. This whole season on the Wall has just been filler anyways, which makes the fact that the took so many short cuts during Jon's time beyond the Wall all the more frustrating.

If they had just taken the time to do it right to begin with, Jon could easily still be with the Wildings, just about to make the climb and the next season could start with the Wildling attack happening as it did in the books. Now its all become rather confused and it is difficult to really take the Wildling threat seriously as their size and strength is mostly just implied at this point.

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I like this change. It (like other bits and pieces) are developing Jon Snow as competent leader material, thereby making the LC election far less contrived than it is in the book.



If you knew that you were facing an army in the tens of thousands, and you only had several hundred to defend, sealing up your defences is easily the most logical choice.


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It's also interesting if they do decide later on to have Bowen opt to seal the gate and Jon being against it. This will show how different Jon thinks about situations now that he is the LC and it will illustrate how diffcult it is to make decisions as a leader.



Or it's just to point out how smart Jon is and how stupid everyone else on the wall is


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It's a way to make him look smarter now and more humanitarian after. Now, he's the smart guy who proposes to block the gates that will be smashed by the giant in ninth episode. Next season he'll argue to keep the gates open so that refugees can come back in, which show how compassionate he is.



Either way the whole decision is a bit nonsensical on the show. Why they don't just narrow the entrance so that only one guy at a time gets passed (which would make it nigh on impregnable and allow for rangings) is beyond me.


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Either way the whole decision is a bit nonsensical on the show. Why they don't just narrow the entrance so that only one guy at a time gets passed (which would make it nigh on impregnable and allow for rangings) is beyond me.

Perhaps it's an engineering thing?

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I'm almost certain that Alliser Thorne is taking Noye's place in the story. He'll die correcting his mistake, opening the way for Jon to be selected Lord Commander, competing only against Slynt.

The below is from trailers, so you may not want to know what's apparently happening:

Aren't there clips in trailers of Tormund fighting Alliser, and of Grenn in the tunnel? Plus Grenn's support of Jon's suggestion could be ironic foreshadowing of the prediction by many that Grenn will be the one to die stopping the giant.

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I like this change. It (like other bits and pieces) are developing Jon Snow as competent leader material, thereby making the LC election far less contrived than it is in the book.

If you knew that you were facing an army in the tens of thousands, and you only had several hundred to defend, sealing up your defences is easily the most logical choice.

:agree:

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Perhaps it's an engineering thing?

I don't think so. It would just be a matter of filling the tunnel partially. If they can do that for the entire tunnel, than they should be able to do that for part of the tunnel.

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