R+L=J v.82

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Indeed, they didn't. We know Aerys' wanted to marry his son another dragon because it's what we suppose he wanted (prophecy and all that) but I wonder if Rhaegar also had a say on it, like "no, I need to get married with a girl who has the blood of the dragon".

And Brandon could have lied. "Yes, you're cute but, you know, my father got ambitions. Sorry".

haha, she sounded like a stage 5 clinger.

Although it does strike me as an important conversation........hmmmmm

[JonCon's Red Beard]

haha, she sounded like a stage 5 clinger.

Although it does strike me as an important conversation........hmmmmm

He might have been honest, yep. But the importance of the conversation may be not as important as we think it was. Like "yes, my father wanted to make better alliances". And Lady Dustin simply elaborated that "only Cat Stark, a Southern lady, would be better than me, and she's important enough that took two Starks away from me". She also looks like she thought Brandon cared about her in the same way she cared about him and maybe he was telling the truth when he said that he didn't care about Cat. Also, Lady Dustin's father didn't really bother about "tempting" him with her daughter and obviously, Brandon accepted.

Lady Dustin's memories are pretty much like Cersei's during Feast, thinking about Rhaegar and Robert. Cersei compared Robert's rudeness with Rhaegar thinking Rhaegar would make a better lover. But there is no way Cersei would know that. Maybe Rhaegar was indifferent and cold in bed and had sex with Elia once every four months. Cersei also think Rhaegar would have never noticed Lyanna if he married her instead, but Rhaegar did care about Elia and still, he went willingly with Lyanna. Also, Cersei was told that the reasons for Aerys to reject her were because Tywin was his servant. That sounds like his own version of Rickard's "southorn ambitions", not wanting to marry his own son to one of his own men. Aerys had a fixed idea of what he wanted to marry his son to, and Cersei's wasn't part of his plans. Rickard wanted to marry his heir to an important lady and it makes sense. But that's all.

[~DarkHorse~]

^

Cersei is one jealous bitch. It would have been hilarious if Rhaegar had married her but still ran off with Lyanna. :lol:

[Pigeon Pie]

^

Cersei is one jealous bitch. It would have been hilarious if Rhaegar had married her but still ran off with Lyanna. :lol:

:smoking:

God, I can't think of any scenario where Cersei could possibly hate Lyanna and every Stark alive more than she already does :rolleyes:

1. Crush, Rhaegar, didn't seem to give a shit about her, but escaped with Lyanna later creating a series of events that led to a war in which he was killed because of his love for Lyanna

2. Husband, Robert, didn't seem to give a shit about her either, and called Lyanna's name while they were making wuv...

No wonder she gave the Starks so much crap... :rolleyes: She later even starts giving Jon crap about being "A traitor's bastard commanding the NW"... if only she knew :rolleyes:

[JonCon's Red Beard]

^

Cersei is one jealous bitch. It would have been hilarious if Rhaegar had married her but still ran off with Lyanna. :lol:

I can imagine her later thoughts if indeed Rhaegar had returned alive instead of Robert:

"Robert had been a great warrior on his prime, strong and full with life, he was known to be loved by men and women, specially women. He was a man of passion, prone to laugh and amuse others. Rhaegar was a Dragon, but beneath the sheets, he was cold as the Wall".

[Ser Leftwich]

I think there are a couple of much more obvious explanations for Ned's stress than worry that Robert will somehow see through his claim that Jon is his own bastard son: Winterfell is suffering "an infestation of Lannisters," as he put it, and he's just been asked to travel to King's Landing and serve as Hand of the King, a job he desperately does not want and isn't sure he can refuse.

A valid observation. however, this scene is before Ned gets the note implicating the Lannister's in Jon Arryn's death. He would only have general, old dislike of the Lannister's, not fresh worries that they are murdering Hands. (The Lannister factor is also explained a bit in one of my earlier posts. Ned is happy to pay the price of Lannister's in order to see Robert.)

And Ned expected that Robert would name him the Hand...

Robert looked at him. “I think you do. If so, you are the only one, my old friend.” He smiled. “Lord Eddard Stark, I would name you the Hand of the King.”

Ned dropped to one knee. The offer did not surprise him; what other reason could Robert have had for coming so far? - AGoT p. 47).

[AegonVandelay]

Rhaegar says in the vision that "his is the song of ice and fire", referring to Aegon as being the prince who was promised. Could it be that after he was smitten with Lyanna and named her the queen of love and beauty, that he realized (or convinced himself) perhaps the song was talking about a union of Targaryen and Stark? Perhaps that is what convinced him that he should take Lyanna and have a child with her?

[Ygrain]

I can imagine her later thoughts if indeed Rhaegar had returned alive instead of Robert:

"Robert had been a great warrior on his prime, strong and full with life, he was known to be loved by men and women, specially women. He was a man of passion, prone to laugh and amuse others. Rhaegar was a Dragon, but beneath the sheets, he was cold as the Wall".

ROFLMAO!!! One can never win with Cersei!

- So that the awesome feat is not forgotten (even though I forgot who the author was):

What would have happened, had Rhaegar married Cersei? - He would have whispered 'Lyanna' on their wedding night :D

[JonCon's Red Beard]

ROFLMAO!!! One can never win with Cersei!

- So that the awesome feat is not forgotten (even though I forgot who the author was):

What would have happened, had Rhaegar married Cersei? - He would have whispered 'Lyanna' on their wedding night :D

"Lyanna", "where is my harp?", "I forgot to tell Arthur something", "Did I sent that letter to Aemon?"

[MtnLion]

"The day I learned that Brandon was to marry Catelyn Tully, though....there was nothing sweet about that pain. He never wanted her, I promise you that. He told me so, on our last night together...but Rickard Stark had great ambitions too. Southron Ambitions that would not be served by having his heir marry the daughter of one of his own vassals. "

Compare what Barbrey says with what Brandon says to Catelyn after the duel with Littlefinger. Something is very, very amiss. I'll wager that Barbrey has a forked tongue.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Compare what Barbrey says with what Brandon says to Catelyn after the duel with Littlefinger. Something is very, very amiss. I'll wager that Barbrey has a forked tongue.

While I was searching through Clash to find out what he said (reminded me, I don't remember), I realised something...

Robb had sex with Jeyne after he found out Bran and Rickon were dead.

I wonder if.... Rhaegar didn't touch Lyanna until they found out Brandon and Rickard were dead and he "comforted" her.

[Fool of a Book]

Hi again, R+L people, can you please explain this line?

"[Jon] was dark where Robb was fair...." AGOT Bran I

Neither Rhaegar nor Lyanna was "dark", they were both considered fair-skinned. Sure, Lyanna had dark hair but since when is Auburn hair considered light? Sounds like this means skin tone.

Contrasting Robb and Jon, what could be considered "fair in contrast to Jon"?

Full passage:

"Jon's eyes were a grey so dark they seemed almost black, but there was little they did not see. He was of an age with Robb but they did not look alike. Jon was slender where Robb was muscular, dark where Robb was fair, graceful and quick where his half brother was strong and fast."

So, dark versus fair. The eyes were already mentioned, so that leaves skin and hair.

I've never heard anyone call someone with auburn hair fair... unless they were referring to skin color.

fair

fe(ə)r

adjective

2. (of hair or complexion) light; blond.

synonyms: blond/blonde, yellowish, golden, flaxen, light, light brown, ash blond

"fair hair"

pale, light, light-colored, white, creamy

[ladyinblack]

He might have been honest, yep. But the importance of the conversation may be not as important as we think it was. Like "yes, my father wanted to make better alliances". And Lady Dustin simply elaborated that "only Cat Stark, a Southern lady, would be better than me, and she's important enough that took two Starks away from me". She also looks like she thought Brandon cared about her in the same way she cared about him and maybe he was telling the truth when he said that he didn't care about Cat. Also, Lady Dustin's father didn't really bother about "tempting" him with her daughter and obviously, Brandon accepted.

Lady Dustin's memories are pretty much like Cersei's during Feast, thinking about Rhaegar and Robert. Cersei compared Robert's rudeness with Rhaegar thinking Rhaegar would make a better lover. But there is no way Cersei would know that. Maybe Rhaegar was indifferent and cold in bed and had sex with Elia once every four months. Cersei also think Rhaegar would have never noticed Lyanna if he married her instead, but Rhaegar did care about Elia and still, he went willingly with Lyanna. Also, Cersei was told that the reasons for Aerys to reject her were because Tywin was his servant. That sounds like his own version of Rickard's "southorn ambitions", not wanting to marry his own son to one of his own men. Aerys had a fixed idea of what he wanted to marry his son to, and Cersei's wasn't part of his plans. Rickard wanted to marry his heir to an important lady and it makes sense. But that's all.

I agree with this. Of course, Rickard wants his heir to marry as well as possible. This would strengthen the power of the North

[FrozenFire3]

While I was searching through Clash to find out what he said (reminded me, I don't remember), I realised something...

Robb had sex with Jeyne after he found out Bran and Rickon were dead.

I wonder if.... Rhaegar didn't touch Lyanna until they found out Brandon and Rickard were dead and he "comforted" her.

Timewise it should work. Also, plausible considering what we know of both Lya's and Rhaegar's characters, the 'story within a story' pattern Martin often follows and the iteration Rick-Bran/Rick-Bran...

[Emerentiana_Zamora]

Timewise it should work. Also, plausible considering what we know of both Lya's and Rhaegar's characters, the 'story within a story' pattern Martin often follows and the iteration Rick-Bran/Rick-Bran...

In some ways it may make the timing work even better. It would explain why Lyanna was still pregnant so late in the war(or late enough that Ned got there in time.) Especially since Lyanna and Rhaegar had been together for more than the length of the war.

[Consigliere]

<snip>

It has been pointed out that Arya looks like Lyanna and Jon looks like Arya. Ergo, Jon looks like Lyanna. All of Ned's sons (Robb, Bran, Rickon) favour the Tully look. By pointing out the differences between Robb and Jon, who are of an age, provides another hint that Jon is not Ned's son.

[Alicia__]

I always assumed the light/dark difference was in their hair.

Robb is mentioned numerous times to have auburn hair whereas John's hair is dark. John also has dark eyes, Robb I believe has the lighter eyes of the Tully family.

[ArabellaVidal]

Thank you, FF3, for the link your 'sullen' post. Sorry I couldn't post your quote. There's something wrong with the quote button.

[Bren]

hello everybody, i'm new to the forum, but I've been reading for a while and really enjoying it.

I believe in the R+L=J theory, but there's something I don't get, I was wondering if someone could please explain me or point me to the thread where it is disccused. How come no one in Westeros suspected that Lyanna might get pregnant. It's the most natural thing in the world for a man and woman to make a baby, especially after Lyanna died and Ned showed up with a motherless son.

ETA. Correct the autocorrect

[Suzanna Stormborn]

hello everybody, i'm new to the forum, but I've been reading for a while and really enjoying it.

I believe in the R+L=J theory, but there's something I don't get, I was wondering if someone could please explain me or point me to the thread where it is disccused. How come no one in Westeros suspected that Lyanna might get pregnant. It's the most natural thing in the world for a man and woman to make a baby, especially after Lyanna died and Ned showed up with a motherless son.

ETA. Correct the autocorrect

hahaha, Yes when you say it like that, it does make everyone in Westeros look sort of stupid.