[Book Spoilers] The Duel

[The Prince of Newcastle]

:dunno:

People aren't allowed to criticize something? Everyone has to unite in their complete agreement on how amazing it was?

Nope. I'm not sure where I said that?!

I just find it funny.

I watched the scene and was genuinely pretty amazed at how well they did it. The dialogue was all there which I didn't expect. I was genuinely "fuck yeah" when they did the death properly.

Then I came here to say that and just read endless "ah but the editing..." Comments and I thought to my self "yep, this is Westeros.org"

And I laughed a merry laugh.

[Ran]

Björnsson was dubbed. I think it may have been the same voice actor who dubbed Ian Whyte's Gregor in season 2. Björnsson has a very heavy Icelandic accent, so no surprise they'd go the dubbing route.

[The Prince of Newcastle]

I think the guy gets off on chastising people for their complaints ;) read last weeks nit pick thread lol. Id just ignore it

Not at all mate. I just find it amusing that people still watch the show, when the only result of doing so is 7 days none stop complaining online about it.

I love the books. I love the show. I love this website.

Btw, I think Ran mentioned Rob Roy earlier in the tread. I love that film. I love the fighting. It's so... Realistic I guess. Great film.

[LordStoneheart]

When D&D decided to adapt this show in such a high profile way they opened themselves up for the criticism. can't be avoided.

[Queen of Whores]

Nope. I'm not sure where I said that?!

I just find it funny.

I watched the scene and was genuinely pretty amazed at how well they did it. The dialogue was all there which I didn't expect. I was genuinely "fuck yeah" when they did the death properly.

Then I came here to say that and just read endless "ah but the editing..." Comments and I thought to my self "yep, this is Westeros.org"

And I laughed a merry laugh.

But the problems some people have with the editing are legitimate and have reasonable arguments behind them. There were too many quick-cuts. The scene lacked a certain feel of urgency and intensity that other fights have had (like Sandor vs Beric, and even the fight at the inn at the start of this season). I get what they were trying to go for with the lack of music (to make it "realistic" or whatever). That works in some scenes (the inn fight in 4x1), but when it's a scene with such an epic build-up and the stakes are so high, and this is the culmination and climax of an entire storyarc, I think we really did need to hear some fitting music. Not generic shitty music like during the Red Wedding, but really thrilling and intense music. I also feel like the ending should have been more abrupt and to the point. Instead we got a slow-down in pace and shock, to hear Tywin's words. I get that it's important to know that Tyrion is screwed, but it's pretty much already implied. Ending the episode immediately on Ellaria's screaming or Tyrion's shocked face would have been much better, in my opinion. I know these can be seen as nitpicks, and some might be, but editing is a very important factor of any scene as well.

ETA: Okay, I've been harping on about the annoying editing for this scene, so I'd just like to quickly praise the single take at the start in the brothel. Sure, it wasn't True Detective level, but it was cool the show kept in an extended take, even if it wasn't necessary. I've got an obsession with long takes in movie and TV, so it was great to see one in Game of Thrones. Okay, I feel I've done enough to ensure some people I'm not just constantly hating on this show. Sometimes it shows moments of goodness :P

[D-A-C]

The episode title wasn't just about Oberyn. A viper is a relatively famous symbol of betrayal (farmer and the viper story). We have Littlefinger in the Vale, we have Theon betraying the Ironborn's trust at the mountainous Moat Caitlin, we have Jorah's betrayal of Dany (notice how Meereen is built on a mountainous rock) and then we have the actual Mountain and the Viper.

That's stretching things ... alot.

Don't give me the director was going for subtle exposition highlighting how the world is full of vipers and mountains to be overcome ... the episode was named for the duel, simple as.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar as the saying goes :) .

[Carl Rhaego]

There was no tension in this fight, it was too short to build up tension. The Mountain just stood there like a statue. Worst part was the head exploding, it was so overdone that it looked silly, I don't think that's physically possible. They coud put that in the Walking Dead but not a show that wants to be half way realistic and serious.

[aFeastForDragons]

That…..was…….amazing!!!!

[OccupyHarrenhal]

Björnsson was dubbed. I think it may have been the same voice actor who dubbed Ian Whyte's Gregor in season 2. Björnsson has a very heavy Icelandic accent, so no surprise they'd go the dubbing route.

i thought he sounded remarkably similar to the last Mountain for being a completely different person.

Fortunately it isn't painfully obvious, like the Dark Knight Rises where re-dubbed Bane speaks at about 12 decibels higher than everyone else.

[OccupyHarrenhal]

I don't think that's physically possible. They coud put that in the Walking Dead but not a show that wants to be half way realistic and serious.

It's very much possible. It takes only 520 pounds of force to crush a skull from the front. (http://thejns.org/doi/full/10.3171/2012.8.PEDS12116). An average adult can exert 289 pounds of force with both hands (http://msis.jsc.nasa.gov/sections/section04.htm#Figure%204.9.3-5). But The Mountain is a LOT stronger than an average adult.

[D-A-C]

It's very much possible. It takes only 520 pounds of force to crush a skull from the front. (http://thejns.org/doi/full/10.3171/2012.8.PEDS12116). An average adult can exert 289 pounds of force with both hands (http://msis.jsc.nasa.gov/sections/section04.htm#Figure%204.9.3-5). But The Mountain is a LOT stronger than an average adult.

We don't need maths ... as someone very accurately summized the director, writer, whoever went for that big 'jolt' of a shock, rather than a sustained level of audience emotion. Probably because the show is actually quite shallow and bereft of some of the key emotional content of the books.

Its just the result of a poor adaptation of the source material.

Squishing his head like that detracted from the power of the scene for some of us, its not really about the 'possibility' of it happening. That is of course an important factor, but it also fits in with other factors that have put some of us off how the scene played out.

Thanks for taking the time to source/explain all that stuff out, it is actually quite interesting :)

[Carl Rhaego]

We don't need maths ... as someone very accurately summized the director, writer, whoever went for that big 'jolt' of a shock, rather than a sustained level of audience emotion. Probably because the show is actually quite shallow and bereft of some of the key emotional content of the books.

Its just the result of a poor adaptation of the source material.

Squishing his head like that detracted from the power of the scene for some of us, its not really about the 'possibility' of it happening. That is of course an important factor, but it also fits in with other factors that have put some of us off how the scene played out.

Thanks for taking the time to source/explain all that stuff out, it is actually quite interesting :)

That was my main problem with it as well. It felt like a cheap shock moment. Compare it to how they portrayed Ned's death. That was a really powerful scene, tasteful but shocking. Oberyn's death was so ridiculous that it ruined the impact for me.

[trgryn-strk-lnstr-mrtell]

:agree: it should be the most brutal, slow, agonizing death....not just that he beat him, but he basically obliterated him....if Gregor is known for killing a man for snoring, he wouldn't just chop a man in half for trying to kill him...crushing/breaking/destroying him with his bare hands, that fits

i would be okay with that...no need for a zoom up slow mo of his face caving in...but camera panned on Gregor while he's pounding Oberyn's face in, or while he appears to be crushing something and bellowing his confession...then after he's done, a quick glance to show it was his face he crushed, not just choked to death...

imo, that wouldn't be tooooo graphic and sufficiently horrific

sorry to quote myself but this was exaaaaaactly what i wanted to see so i've never been happier with D&D :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[The Prince of Newcastle]

Doesn't he do that in the book? Or at least something pretty similar.

The fight had no tension because everyone here has read the books and know it doesn't end well.

I liked it. I thought they did it justice.

[Roose Seal]

We don't need maths ... as someone very accurately summized the director, writer, whoever went for that big 'jolt' of a shock, rather than a sustained level of audience emotion. Probably because the show is actually quite shallow and bereft of some of the key emotional content of the books.

Its just the result of a poor adaptation of the source material.

Squishing his head like that detracted from the power of the scene for some of us, its not really about the 'possibility' of it happening. That is of course an important factor, but it also fits in with other factors that have put some of us off how the scene played out.

Thanks for taking the time to source/explain all that stuff out, it is actually quite interesting :)

I felt like they treated it exactly the same way they treated the Red Wedding. All shock, no emotion.

[MyLittleFinger]

The guy who plays the Mountain pulls fucking big rig trucks with the force of his god damned body, yet people are complaining that he could crush somebodies skull? Are you drunk or too used to Hollywood having people survive getting smacked with massive objects and getting right back up? This guy does this

• Squat – 350 kg (770 lbs.) raw
  
• Bench press – 230 kg (507 lbs.) raw
  
• Strongman Deadlift – 420 kg (924 lbs.) raw with wrist straps
  
• Loglift – 192.5 kg (424 lbs.)
  

The whole point of the fight both in the book and show is that if he touches you and you don't happen to be Sandor, Jon Umber or Robert Baratheon in his hey day, you're dead.

[trgryn-strk-lnstr-mrtell]

The guy who plays the Mountain pulls fucking big rig trucks with the force of his god damned body, yet people are complaining that he could crush somebodies skull? Are you drunk or too used to Hollywood having people survive getting smacked with massive objects and getting right back up? This guy does this

• Squat – 350 kg (770 lbs.) raw

• Bench press – 230 kg (507 lbs.) raw

Strongman Deadlift – 420 kg (924 lbs.) raw with wrist straps

Loglift – 192.5 kg (424 lbs.)

The whole point of the fight both in the book and show is that if he touches you and you don't happen to be Sandor, Jon Umber or Robert Baratheon in his hey day, you're dead.

thanks for posting that! seriously people, there is a reason they call him THOR...he's the third strongest man in the world at only 26...yes, he could defintiely crush a mans skull in...

and fuck if he couldnt...its in the books, had to happen

[Lord Martin]

They pulled it off well, loved that Oberyns squire before the fight was rubbing his spear-head with what looked like a wet/poison

This was a nice touch especially.

[Autumn is Coming]

I understand the need to nitpick, but everyone's making it sound like this episode was the worst thing ever put on screen. It wasn't; it was fine.

[Roose Seal]

The guy who plays the Mountain pulls fucking big rig trucks with the force of his god damned body, yet people are complaining that he could crush somebodies skull? Are you drunk or too used to Hollywood having people survive getting smacked with massive objects and getting right back up? This guy does this

• Squat – 350 kg (770 lbs.) raw

• Bench press – 230 kg (507 lbs.) raw

Strongman Deadlift – 420 kg (924 lbs.) raw with wrist straps

Loglift – 192.5 kg (424 lbs.)

The whole point of the fight both in the book and show is that if he touches you and you don't happen to be Sandor, Jon Umber or Robert Baratheon in his hey day, you're dead.

I don't think anyone is debating whether or not he could do it. People are just saying it looked a little dumb on screen, is all.