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[Book Spoilers] The Duel


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I hope they go with the cut in half thing, by the way. I think smashing his head in is a little too gruesome, especially when paired with gouging his eyes.

I dunno, this is the same show that has a woman get stabbed several times in her pregnant womb, and it wasn't even in the books. I'm hoping D&D go all out on this scene.

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Going back for a second whether Oberyn will win/survive, I don't see them doing that at all, it's so much better with him dying. Setting him as this greatest badass on the planet's surface who is on an epic revenge-trip and then killing him off in his first fight due to his own fault..,. it's just too good. Changing it would be ruining it.


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I hope they go with the cut in half thing, by the way. I think smashing his head in is a little too gruesome, especially when paired with gouging his eyes.

I kind of hope they don't try the cut in half thing with Oberyn. IIRC, we had a somewhat similar halving in Battle of Blackwater......and I think it looked a bit fake. It may be hard to do it as graphically described in the books, but The Hound trying to mash someone's face in during Ep1 this season, and not quite getting a good grip, not quite being able to do it.....makes me think they just may go that route with Oberyn.

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I kind of hope they don't try the cut in half thing with Oberyn. IIRC, we had a somewhat similar halving in Battle of Blackwater......and I think it looked a bit fake. It may be hard to do it as graphically described in the books, but The Hound trying to mash someone's face in during Ep1 this season, and not quite getting a good grip, not quite being able to do it.....makes me think they just may go that route with Oberyn.

Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. And Locke's death wasn't a head crushing as much as it was a head wrenching. So using the rule of 3, it points to a more canonical death for the Viper.

Well, we'll know in five days!

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I can see the fight and dialogue being very loyal to the books except for the ending. I imagine the Mountain will say the same lines but instead of eye gouging, face caving or chopping in half he pulls Oberyn's dagger and stabs him between each line he speaks. The thrust and look on Oberyn's face as he's getting stabbed would have a similarly dramatic effect as the face punches,but without the gore.


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I can see the fight and dialogue being very loyal to the books except for the ending. I imagine the Mountain will say the same lines but instead of eye gouging, face caving or chopping in half he pulls Oberyn's dagger and stabs him between each line he speaks. The thrust and look on Oberyn's face as he's getting stabbed would have a similarly dramatic effect as the face punches,but without the gore.

I think there was plenty of gore in the series, not always completely justified, but in this scene it's actually important it stays. It's probably the most horrific death of a 'good character'.

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I think there was plenty of gore in the series, not always completely justified, but in this scene it's actually important it stays. It's probably the most horrific death of a 'good character'

Yes there has been plenty of gore but I'm not sure how important it is Oberyn has his face caved in? So many posters here constantly say such=and-such has to happen because it's too important in the books - but anything can be changed if you alter what comes next accordingly. Anything.

But my rationale for a stabbing vs. face smashing is primarily based on the fact that it will be significantly more difficult to pull that off from a visual and realistic standpoint than a stabbing. I'm sure they have a team of highly skilled CGI people just drooling at the prospect of a face being crushed by a huge fist, but that doesn't mean the director feels the same way.

Short version: Face caving? Maybe, but it will be a very tough scene to do justice to on screen.

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Yes there has been plenty of gore but I'm not sure how important it is Oberyn has his face caved in? So many posters here constantly say such=and-such has to happen because it's too important in the books - but anything can be changed if you alter what comes next accordingly. Anything.

But my rationale for a stabbing vs. face smashing is primarily based on the fact that it will be significantly more difficult to pull that off from a visual and realistic standpoint than a stabbing. I'm sure they have a team of highly skilled CGI people just drooling at the prospect of a face being crushed by a huge fist, but that doesn't mean the director feels the same way.

Short version: Face caving? Maybe, but it will be a very tough scene to do justice to on screen.

What's worse? Book version or stabbing?

Which one is more heartbreaking to witness considering how beloved the character is?

Which one shows better just what kind of a monster Mountain is?

Which one is seldom seen in TV/movies hence more shocking?

We had Tyrion crash someone's face with shield in season 1.

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That would be more jarring than that awful song in 3x03 end credits

^Well I doubt they'd do a folk punk rendering. In my head I picture the Dornishman's wife being a moody harmonic minor toned sort of thing. Karliene's cover on youtube is pretty cool too. But as I said, wouldn't we have heard about another band being commissioned to do it by now?

The Dornishman's wife is a cheerful song, it is the ultimate YOLO song in ASOIAF, as much as I love Karliene's voice, it doesn't fit for a loudly a tavern song.

^I hope we get the Dornishman's wife too (and it would be a perfect fit), but I think we would've heard something by now about it being recorded, wouldn't we?

I still hope for both Dornishman's wife and the Last of the Giants to be in this season, and the reason we hadn't heard any news is because they did hire a mainstream band to play it, or if they had they made sure to keep it under secret.

Or maybe I'm just to optimistic

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The part of the duel that I have the clearest mental image of, however, is the end, which will double as the end of the episode. I've pretty much mapped out my ideal version of that scene, shot for shot, far too many times. ;)

Clegane brutally delivers the finishing blow to Oberyn - whether by smashing his head in, cutting him in half, or some combination of the two. Immediately following that scene we get two reaction shots in quick succession: Ellaria screams in despair and horror, and Tyrion falls to his knees and vomits. Then, interspersed with a few more shots of Oberyn's ruined body, we get a few stunned reaction shots from the people watching - among them Tywin, Cersei, and Jaime. Everyone is too stunned to speak. With the exception of Ellaria's heartbroken cries, the arena is completely and utterly silent.

Then Tyrion starts to laugh - softly at first, then louder and louder until he's basically cackling with hysteria. Those around him stare at him uneasily, convinced that he's lost his mind - which he basically has. His laughter mingles with Ellaria's sobs for several uncomfortable seconds before Tywin motions for the guards to take Tyrion away. Tyrion doesn't resist at all as he's half-marched, half-dragged out of the arena, still laughing uncontrollably. The camera lifts away from the scene into an aerial perspective, revealing the full extent of the carnage in the arena: Oberyn and Gregor Clegane lying next to one another in a slowly expanding pool of their shared blood. A tragedy and mockery of justice in one unforgettable image.

Ellaria's cries and Tyrion's despairing laughter continue to play over this shot until the screen cuts to black. The credits are accompanied by a suitably mournful song, or better yet, total silence.

:bowdown: :bowdown:

Why are you not working for HBO???

D&D could really use someone like you, that was perfect

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Whether or not they keep it exactly the same as the book, I think Oberyn's death definitely needs to retain the same kind of brutality. Something like being cut in half with a sword just seems too... "clean". The thing that makes it shocking isn't just that he dies, but that he's so violently brutalized. And as much as it will break mine own heart, seriously, just imagine the reaction of people seeing a character they've come to love not only die, but die terribly. Imagine it. Imagine their faces.


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Someone on Reddit posted awhile back claiming to be an extra in this scene. According to him, all the main lines from the book are kept during the duel including "You raped her. You murdered her. You killed her children", and Oberyn does get his head smashed in, but there are some changes, including Tyrion not vomiting.

:) I hope they were telling the truth. I'd like to see Tyrion vomiting but it's less important to me than keeping the lines and cause of death similar.

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I don't understand why people would want the violence to be "toned down" because it's "too gruesome." That's the entire point. The brutality is shocking. It makes you feel things. I don't know if anyone has seen this comic but I stumbled across it this morning and I'm glad I did. It's a perfect portrayal of the duel and an example that the show should follow. Link: http://mccomseycomix.wordpress.com/2013/06/26/the-red-viper-vs-the-mountain-that-rides-a-12-page-comic/



One of the people who left a comment said something that I thought was really awesome. I had always imagined Oberyn felt immense fear and regret once the Mountain grabbed hold of his leg but this guy really put it into words nicely...





My favorite bit is the look of shock and very real fear on Oberyn’s face and that he struggles in vain for his life when the Mountain grabs him right at the end. The Red Viper easily could be portrayed as an unwavering defiant caricature of vengeful wrath right up to the end and probably has been before, however this cartoonist gives us something rather different and in my opinion considerably more interesting. Their Oberyn Martell is suddenly confronted with the price he is going to have pay for the confession and vengeance for his murdered sister and realises in the last seconds of his life that he really doesn’t want to pay that price…


…but it is already too late!




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Going back for a second whether Oberyn will win/survive, I don't see them doing that at all, it's so much better with him dying. Setting him as this greatest badass on the planet's surface who is on an epic revenge-trip and then killing him off in his first fight due to his own fault..,. it's just too good. Changing it would be ruining it.

D&D has changed many things from the novels, but they've never had a character that should have died survive*. There is pretty much a 0% chance of this happening.

*The inn fight happened way out of sequence, the Hound will probably die from Biter's bite instead which is why they added it.

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I dont think Oberyn will be choped in half. The Mountain is supposed to be badly injured at this point of the duel, and lying on the ground. I dont see him managing to cut someone in half in that position.


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I dont think Oberyn will be choped in half. The Mountain is supposed to be badly injured at this point of the duel, and lying on the ground. I dont see him managing to cut someone in half in that position.

Yea he's actually pinned to the ground by the spear and is unable to pull it out of his body. Assuming the same thing happens in the show, it would be quite impossible for him to cut someone in half. I like the idea of Oberyn having heard incorrectly that Elia was cut in half, with Gregor showing him first hand what really happened.

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Yeah, I agree that him being cut in half wouldn't make any sense based on how the duel goes.



I haven't been overly impressed with the fight choreography this season, but given the importance of this particular fight, and the length of time devoted to it, I hope they can deliver the goods.


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I don't understand why people would want the violence to be "toned down" because it's "too gruesome." That's the entire point. The brutality is shocking. It makes you feel things. I don't know if anyone has seen this comic but I stumbled across it this morning and I'm glad I did. It's a perfect portrayal of the duel and an example that the show should follow. Link: http://mccomseycomix.wordpress.com/2013/06/26/the-red-viper-vs-the-mountain-that-rides-a-12-page-comic/

One of the people who left a comment said something that I thought was really awesome. I had always imagined Oberyn felt immense fear and regret once the Mountain grabbed hold of his leg but this guy really put it into words nicely...

That is an amazing portrayal of the duel in graphic novel form. Thanks for posting it.

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