Would the Targaryens have won against Robert if Mace Tyrell had been at the Trident?

[paramount]

Think about it. The Tyrells could muster a host of nearly 100 000 and are by far have the most powerful military force of the Seven kingdoms.

From Jorah we hear that Rhaegar had 40 000 at the Trident along with 10 000 Dornishmen.

Mace Tyrell was not the best miliatry commander but that was by far made up to by his number of troops and capable bannermen. Randyll Tarly had already defeated Robert at Ashford and his liege was Mace Tyrell.

Mace Tyrell also had the Redwyne fleet which could transport men to the Trident. This combined with the fact that Robert's navy was non existent. The lords backing Robert weren't even loyal take Walder Frey for an example who did not come to the Trident until Robert had won.

[TallTyrion]

They probably would have won. Is the 100 000 number accurate though? It that's the case isn't that more men than both the Rebels and Loyalists combined?

[Biter the Gallant]

Think about it. The Tyrells could muster a host of nearly 100 000 and are by far have the most powerful military force of the Seven kingdoms.

From Jorah we hear that Rhaegar had 40 000 at the Trident along with 10 000 Dornishmen.

Mace Tyrell was not the best miliatry commander but that was by far made up to by his number of troops and capable bannermen. Randyll Tarly had already defeated Robert at Ashford and his liege was Mace Tyrell.

Mace Tyrell also had the Redwyne fleet which could transport men to the Trident. This combined with the fact that Robert's navy was non existent. The lords backing Robert weren't even loyal take Walder Frey for an example who did not come to the Trident until Robert had won.

Interesting question. However, I think the 100000 was the combined force of the Tyrells' and Renly's Stormlands army, the Tyrells are not that strong alone. In case of marching to the Trident, they had to leave some smaller blocking force at Storm's End anyway,but clearly Mace could have been there with a formidable force- if he would have wanted that... So yes, I suppose the loyalist case could have won in that fantasy scenario, just it seems that Mace was not really the type of man who wants to send his men against the combined force of four rebel kingdoms, just to save the Mad King's ass - he rather liked safer operations on the stormlands and a solid siege, and to wait for who wins, who loses.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

If Mace's army is at the Trident then KL is completely unprotected against a strike from Storm's End. It's the same reason why Stannis went for Storm's End instead of going straight to KL is ACOK.

[Fat Trell]

Mace was not in command of a force of 100,000 at the time of the Trident. More along the lines of 40,000 I believe. Some Reach levies were sent along with Rhaegar. Not nearly as many as could have been sent though. I would argue Mace was actively withholding troops from the Royalist cause so as to hedge his bets. That being the only logical reason more Reach forces weren't at the Trident.

Where do you get the idea that those that fought for Robert weren't loyal? There were many petty lords who opposed their lieges to remain loyal to the crown, but we get no implication those that fought for him were any more fickle than those that fought with Rhaegar.

[Fat Trell]

If Mace's army is at the Trident then KL is completely unprotected against a strike from Storm's End. It's the same reason why Stannis went for Storm's End instead of going straight to KL is ACOK.

A strike from Storm's End consisting of what army? Stannis' garrison of starving men? Mace need not send all his forces, maintains the siege wouldn't have taken a huge amount of men.

[TallTyrion]

If Mace's army is at the Trident then KL is completely unprotected against a strike from Storm's End. It's the same reason why Stannis went for Storm's End instead of going straight to KL is ACOK.

Would Stannis have had sufficient force to attack King's Landing though? I thought he only had a few thousand men at Storm's End and most of them would be pretty starved and weak at that point.

And he didn't have enough strength to take King's Landing while Renly was alive. I thought that was the reason he went to Storm's End.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

A strike from Storm's End consisting of what army? Stannis' garrison of starving men? Mace need not send all his forces, maintains the siege wouldn't have taken a huge amount of men.

The Garrison is not very large, but once Mace's Army leaves the Stormlands Stannis can go out can rally the Stormlands and raise fresh troops, just like Devan did after Robb's victory at Oxcross, Robert did not have time to raise the full strength of the Stormlands with him, but Stannis can't do that as long as he's stuck inside the castle.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

Would Stannis have had sufficient force to attack King's Landing though? I thought he only had a few thousand men at Storm's End and most of them would be pretty starved and weak at that point.

And he didn't have enough strength to take King's Landing while Renly was alive. I thought that was the reason he went to Storm's End.

No, Renly's men (save those from Highgarden) pledged themselves to Stannis after Renly died, Stannis took Storm's End because he didn't want to be ambushed from behind by Renly's loyalists in Storm's End.

[Victor227]

If Mace Tyrell showed up, and the Crown outnumbered the rebels 2-1, there would have been no battle of the Trident. Ned, Hoster, and Jon Arryn would have convinced Robert that the best course of action would be to withdraw, dance around the royal host, and try to either split them, or find a nigh-unbeatable defensive ground to fight at.

[Fat Trell]

The Garrison is not very large, but once Mace's Army leaves the Stormlands Stannis can go out can rally the Stormlands and raise fresh troops, just like Devan did after Robb's victory at Oxcross, Robert did not have time to raise the full strength of the Stormlands with him, but Stannis can't do that as long as he's stuck inside the castle.

Again, there is no need to break the siege. You don't need 40,000 men to besiege a castle.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

There is no evidence that Mace had 40,000 men at the siege.

[Winterfell is Burning]

Certainly some of Rhaegar's troops in the Trident were from the Reach.

Anyway, if Mace had sent most of his troops to the Trident...there wouldn't be a battle because Ned and Jon would never have given them a direct confrontation when they were so easily outnumbered.

[TallTyrion]

The Garrison is not very large, but once Mace's Army leaves the Stormlands Stannis can go out can rally the Stormlands and raise fresh troops, just like Devan did after Robb's victory at Oxcross, Robert did not have time to raise the full strength of the Stormlands with him, but Stannis can't do that as long as he's stuck inside the castle.

The Storm Lands are pretty sparsely populated though. Stafford Lannsiter was able to raise men from Lannisport, a huge city, there's really no equivalent in the Storm Lands. Devan's forces were mostly made up of regathering the army Robb smashed at Oxcross.

[The Bittersteel]

Yes. He wasted his time at Storm's End when he should have focused on Robert.

[paramount]

Would Stannis have had sufficient force to attack King's Landing though? I thought he only had a few thousand men at Storm's End and most of them would be pretty starved and weak at that point.

And he didn't have enough strength to take King's Landing while Renly was alive. I thought that was the reason he went to Storm's End.

it wouldn't be the Tyrell and Redwyne fleet could smash the Stormland fleet of Stannis

[Lord Thornhart]

Yup. Stannis is the true, unsung hero of the war.

[Universal Sword Donor]

The 40K number is the total number of loyalist forces under command at the Trident. Who knows how many Mace had at SE. It's not mentioned anywhere in the book. It really didn't need to be that big, though it was described as "one of the largest loyalist forces." SE has a small garrison under Stannis. Realistically that's going to be a few hundred men. Renly left 200 there when he started marching to KL. It's not going to be much larger, if it is, during RR. Mace immediately dipped his banners when Ned showed up. That doesn't say anything about the size of his force,

Frankly I never really understood why everyone was worried about Stannis coming up from the rear to attack KL. His force was tiny, unless it was going to be augmented by the "badly bloodied" Stormland houses.

[Fat Trell]

There is no evidence that Mace had 40,000 men at the siege.

40,000 is an estimate. A low one at that. Stannis states he held Storm's End against all the strength of the Reach.

[Cheesedude]

The loyalist forces already had a numbers advantage without the Reach forces with them. Robert killed Rhaegar and the loyalists broke. I don't think doubling the size of the army would have changed that. Rhaegar dead, two of the Kingsguard dead, the loyalists break.

That said, having more soldiers could change the outcome - if having those soldiers prevented Robert and Rhaegar from fighting each other. More troops between them, they might not ever get to each other. In which case, I'd bet on a loyalist victory simply based on numbers. They're not gonna break when they have a numbers advantage and the crown prince is rallying them. The rebels would have broken first.