Were ASOIAF readers aware of Ramsay Bolton before A Dance With Dragons

[paramount]

This question has always interested me. In Dance With Dragons Ramsay obviously becomes far more noticed by people because of his grisly atrocities but were you aware of Ramsay in Clash of Kings where he appeared. I have noticed that often people who have read up to Feast for Crows don't know who this guy is. He was always mysterious in Clash of Kings but mentioned numerous times the series before Dance With Dragons.

[horizon]

Uh, yes, I knew him as the one who posed as Reek and tricked Theon in the end.

[A Bastard Snow]

Um yea its only people who watch the show who didnt know because they changed the entire WF plotline.

[lokisnow]

I think he wasn't considered very discussion worthy pre ADWD. I don't remember any major discussions about him, and if there were discussions, they generally centered on the crackpot theory that Theon might still be alive. The generally accepted theory was that Theon was dead, because other than Cat, George leaves people dead. Most posters considered it a bit nutty that Theon might still be alive, and thought that his storyline was closed at the end of ACOK, but it was a fairly widely debated theory, as widely debated as the "crazy" theories that Aegon might still be alive, ferreted away by Varys and substituted before Gregor could kill him. But Ramsey never really entered into the Theon theories, other than that he might have kept Theon alive at Roose's behest. That he would become such a major villain was unexpected, I feel.

[Gertrude]

He is very noticeable even before he reveals himself. The story of Lady Hornwood in Clash is pretty horrifying, but it was background and not much to discuss. It's been a long time, but I don't think the theories of Theon being alive were considered crackpot. Maybe not widely accepted, but not crackpot. Robb did receive a strip of his flesh, after all. That was a pretty good indication that Ramsay kept him around for at least a little while, and gave credence to the theory that he was still alive.

He was also notable because of the impending marriage which was set up at the end of Storm, but again, the discussion was more around the identity of the girl (Jeyne Poole) than Ramsay himself. Again, I don't remember what was being said, but we had to have been feeling very, very sorry for the poor girl given his history.

So yeah, not much discussion of Ramsay himself. He had been established a very depraved character, but I don't think anyone really saw the extent of what was to come.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Very much aware as the reason for the downfall of the Starks. Though it focussed less on Ramsay himself than on Ramsay as Roose's tool to achieve that.

[The Prince of Newcastle]

I always remembered him as the guy who starved Lady Hornwood to death anyway.

All 5 books were available when I started reading though.

[The Holy Goat]

I was certainly aware or Ramsay's depravities, but I didn't realize how deep they went or how big a part in the story he would become. He was kind of like Amory Lorch in that regard. A horrible human being, and notable enough to remember, but not really a mover of the story at large.

That view of him obviously changed though.

[Ser Elvin of Clymer]

I was tricked prior to aDwD, and went back to re-read to figure it out, as to who Ramsey was when he attacks the Northmen and the whole discussion/cuffing with Theon in aCoK.

In re-reading the clues are there, obviously in Roose's comments about his bastard, but the Bran chapters certainly sneak it in. GRRM embeds things, and we overlook them because of the 3 Eyed Crow or other threads of the story seem more critical.

When Jojen tells Bran that Reek/Ramsey will do horrible things it certainly gave us a hint - but then the act of killing/burning of the miller's children seemed to cover that prophecy. Towards the end I thought Reek had just robbed Theon, and still never had a clue about Ramsey surviving until he tells Theon.

Each re-read I find more of these subtleties wether Reek, Sarella/Alleras, Red Wedding or Arya's last aSoS chapter using "Mercy" in it 5-6 times (at least). Brilliant layering by GRRM, and there is no waste in his writing.

[SerArthurHeath]

Yep, given that he's explicitly in Clash and reveals himself at the end!