Small questions v.10082

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Also in GoT Tyrion says he has seen 8 or 9 winters, so either he is exaggerating or they weren't very long winters.

Unless maybe that's from before GRRM had everything worked out.

I think by then GRRM hadn't worked it out yet. I've calculated once, and it would only have worked out if all sumemers and winters had lasted less than 2 years, and that's excluding the fact there are also springs and autumns..

[mindchap]

I think by then GRRM hadn't worked it out yet. I've calculated once, and it would only have worked out if all sumemers and winters had lasted less than 2 years, and that's excluding the fact there are also springs and autumns..

Yeah that's what I was thinking, because they don't really sound all that bad if they were that short.

[TheCrannogDweller]

Yeah that's what I was thinking, because they don't really sound all that bad if they were that short.

Are we told of a brutal winter in Ned's time? Because I don't remember that.

That being said, Tyrion is 24 - and the long summer lasted 10 years. So, he was 14 before it.

Just because the seasons in Westeros can last for years, doesn't mean that they always last for years. Thus, those 14 years of Tyrion's young life may have seen a sequence of short seasons.

[Bori]

What's the biggest mountain in Westeros?

it was more-or-less discussed in the previous version, just scroll down:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/110087-small-questions-v10081/page-12#entry5816479

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Are we told of a brutal winter in Ned's time? Because I don't remember that.

That being said, Tyrion is 24 - and the long summer lasted 10 years. So, he was 14 before it.

Just because the seasons in Westeros can last for years, doesn't mean that they always last for years. Thus, those 14 years of Tyrion's young life may have seen a sequence of short seasons.

No, that's true, but saying "since the last dragon died, the winters got longer and more cruel", followed by 8 very short winters, is a bit strange :p

I can't remember a mention of a winter in reference to Ned, or perhaps you are talking about the year of the false spring?

[Mychel_Redfort]

IIRC all the seasons we know the time of since the last dragon died, is a 7 year summer during Maekars , a 10 year summer when the books begin, and a 3 year winter during which Tyrion was born

And the 2 year autumn beginning in the prologue of aCoK and ending in the epilogue of aDwD

[TheCrannogDweller]

No, that's true, but saying "since the last dragon died, the winters got longer and more cruel", followed by 8 very short winters, is a bit strange :P

Sure, that does make it odd. I just wanted to offer an alternative explanation. :)

Still, I very much doubt that there is a structure (or a rhytm) to the seasons in this world. The assertion that the winters are getting exponentially longer after the death of the dragons also doesn't hold much water. Tyrion was born at the end of a 3-year winter, which happened more than a century after the dragons died off.

I can't remember a mention of a winter in reference to Ned, or perhaps you are talking about the year of the false spring?

I wanted to say "in living memory" - but then I decided to narrow it down to the present generation, and Ned was the first name that came to me. :D

The more accurate thing for me to say was "in Tyrion's time".

[mindchap]

snip

Just the one he was born during is the only one that comes to mind:

“As you say, my lord.” He had been born in the dead of winter, a terrible cruel one that the

maesters said had lasted near three years

, but Tyrion’s earliest memories were of spring.

Makes you wonder, if he was born in the dead of a cruel winter, what were the Martells doing out and about visiting?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Just the one he was born during is the only one that comes to mind:Makes you wonder, if he was born in the dead of a cruel winter, what were the Martells doing out and about visiting?

Marriage.. Elia had reached that age..

and perhaps there was the faint hope that betrothing Oberyn would keep him out of trouble.. :p

[aryagonnakill#2]

Guest rights go back as far as the first men, even the Wildlings respect guest rights. They are as sacred as heart trees. There are more than one set of mountain clans, but I assume you mean the Vale. The mountain clans of the Vale are descendant from first men. The Arryn's are Andal blood, the Vale was the first place the Andals landed and assimilated the people into there culture it is where chivalry began in Westeros. So yes they did attempt to assimilate the First men, those they did not kill and the Mountain clans are made up of those that did not bend to the Andals. The Mountain clans have been relatively small time in the Vale over the last 100 years. And yes they have tried to kill them in the Vale but have not seen them as a threat in a long time.

It may also be possible for a Stark like Sansa to gain their support, given her strong first men blood ties. Even Wildlings seem to have respect for the Starks as first men.

A metaphor I believe Martin used with the Mountain clans of the Vale was with some of the names and relationships of the clans. He pointed out the close relationship of the Black ears and the Moon brothers, both being symbolic of the Others and Wights, the Wights blackened appendages and of course the seemingly close association of the Moon and the Others. The Black ears and Moonborthers fear only one clan, the Burning men.

Way more than you asked for, sorry about that.

Don't be sorry at all that last bit was a very interesting little tidbit I had not noticed. I assumed they held guest rights sacred originally, but I wasn't sure they even had houses at this point or whether they were semi nomadic. Not having a home could effect your view on guest rights imo.

[Ser Creighton]

Yeah, my Andals should have said First Men, :p

Yeah I thought as much and thought it was probably a mistake. Interesting look at invasions of Westeros. In 12,000 the first men invade, in 8,000 the Others, in 4,000 the Andals. I say 4,000 because the new revisions in Dance from a True History say 4,000 instead of 6,000. Then 4,000 years later Aegons Landing. I skip the Roynar because it was more of a migration and they actually untied with part of Dorne to take over the rest of Dorne but never attempted to conquer Westeros. It's odd the Others have shown up about 3700 years to early.

ETA. On an interesting note and I just thought about this but the victors always came from the east and or the south. First men came from the east and up through the south, they defeat the children. Others come from the North and lose to the First men, Andals come from the east and defeat most of the first men and take over most of the regions. Targayens not only came from the east but Valyria is one of the furthest southern points in the world. The Valyrians also conquered most of Essos coming from the south and the east. Dragonstone is also considered in the south.

[Lady Tierneigh]

A hypothetical question, that presupposes R+L=J.

What would Rheagar have named Jon if he had had the opportunity? If he was thinking of the "three heads of the dragon," and named his first two children Rheanys and Aegon, no doubt he had Visenya in the back of his mind for the third.

Since Jon was a boy, what would that have translated to? Viserys? Viserion maybe? Just wondering.

[Bob Sacamano]

I've always thought it would have been Viserys...

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Perhaps, because his brother was already called Viserys, some variation on that, though to be honest, there hasn't been one, so Rhaegar would need to start thinking deeply about that. But it seems like you don't give your child a name that a family member who is still alive has. (I know Aegon II and Aegon III were alive at the same time, but since there was such a high hatred and rivalry beteen Rhaenyra and Alicent, I suspect the names of their children was somewhat of a rivalry competition).

As to Targaryen names, a select few examples:

Rhaenys:

• Rhaena
  
• Rhaenyra
  

Baelon:

• Baela
  

Maegon:

• Maegor
  
• Maelor
  

So it seems that Targaryens, despite they come up with new names as well, also do a lot with variations.

[AlliYoyo]

Is there any info on the app or anywhere else regarding the recent seasons in westeros? just wondering when was the last winter they had and how long did it last?

The tourney at Harrenhal (where Rhaegar crowned Lyanna the Queen of Love and Beauty) was in the "year of the false spring", meaning that it was still winter. I'd say Robert's Rebellion took place at the end of that winter, The summer that was at the start of the books was a long one -- nine years (Arya would have been born at the start of the summer). Given that RR was at the most 15 years before the start of GoT, then that spring could have been no more than 5-6 years. I have no idea about the length of the seasons before that.

And the most recent autumn was only about 2 years (IIRC autumn started about the end of GoT, the start of CoK, and winter started at the end of ADwD).

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

There was a winter tourney in 253AC... We have no idea how long that winter lasted, though.

And of course there was a spring during 209AC, The Great Spring Sickness.

And like I listed before, the 7 year summer during Maekars reign (but since Maekar reigned for 12 years, we don't know the exact date), followed by a harsh winter (of unknown length).

The Year of the False Spring in 281AC

Summer from 289AC until 299AC, autumn from beginning 299AC until just over half 300AC, and winter from about the 7th month of 300AC

[TheCrannogDweller]

The tourney at Harrenhal (where Rhaegar crowned Lyanna the Queen of Love and Beauty) was in the "year of the false spring", meaning that it was still winter. I'd say Robert's Rebellion took place at the end of that winter...

Robert's Rebellion started over a year after the tourney. So the false spring had probably turned into a true spring by then.

[LordStoneheart]

Is there any proof that Timett really have a father named Timett?A friend of mine wants his "son of Timett" title to be a sarcastic way of saying he needs no notable father, but I didn't think that would be the case

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Is there any proof that Timett really have a father named Timett?A friend of mine wants his "son of Timett" title to be a sarcastic way of saying he needs no notable father, but I didn't think that would be the case

it seems to be a way of speech for the mountain clans, to state the name of your father. The others do it too. I don't see why Timett would be the only one to be making up a name. :) Timett's father was simply named Timett as well :)

[Bob Sacamano]

Do we know if Owen Merryweather (Hand of Aerys II) is still alive?