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KCenturion

(Spoilers) The History of the Westerlands

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Does Westerlands have an official list of Lannister kings, one sponsored as official by the Lannisters themselves?

I would assume they do, but given that the Lannisters are said to have reigned for thousands of years that list is going to be very, very, very long. So while we may get a family tree with every Lord Lannister since the Conquest I don't think that we'll get every King Lannister since Lann, only some mentioned here and there.

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I would assume they do, but given that the Lannisters are said to have reigned for thousands of years that list is going to be very, very, very long. So while we may get a family tree with every Lord Lannister since the Conquest I don't think that we'll get every King Lannister since Lann, only some mentioned here and there.

Yeah I agree I would have thought that all of the Houses that's been around thousands of years would have some sort of genealogy book with the Kings and Lords that have reigned. I remember it mentioned in a reading that the Starks have a book called "Legends and Lineage of the Starks of Winterfell" I think that's what it's called and I'm sure the maesters would have kept some sort of info about the ancestors.

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I was rereading the notes from historyofwesteros.org, and I think I found a small mistake (mind you, I was not actually present at the reading)






It was also said that he lived to 312 (Aziz wrote down 212, but I am fairly confident he said 312…it is unimportant, in any case). He had hundreds of sons and daughters, in this tale. There are no mother names given, but if it was just one woman…that would be one exhausted mother.

How can someone be stated to have lived until 312AC if the book is written in 298/299/300AC? That's not possible, I think.. So perhaps 212AC makes more sense indeed?


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I was rereading the notes from historyofwesteros.org, and I think I found a small mistake (mind you, I was not actually present at the reading)

How can someone be stated to have lived until 312AC if the book is written in 298/299/300AC? That's not possible, I think.. So perhaps 212AC makes more sense indeed?

Is this Lann the Clever? I assume 212/312 is regarding his age. Afterall, he is some legendary figure. Tales of him living to an incredible old age are likely.

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Is this Lann the Clever? I assume 212/312 is regarding his age. Afterall, he is some legendary figure. Tales of him living to an incredible old age are likely.

Ah, yeah, that could be it...

In that case, false alarm :p

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Anyone who says Tywin is an "overrated" or poor military commander really needs to read this. His handling of the Reynes/Tarbecks was damn impressive


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I was rereading the notes again, and I saw that Genna's marriage to Emmon was stated to have occured after Jeyne's death (so in or after 255AC). Genna had been betrothed to Emmon in 253AC.



Is there any way to conclude which exact year the marriage itself took place?


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is it possible the second dance could be between fire and ice dragons? I guess probably not.

This is more or less my theory - though I admit I've not yet read TPATQ, mostly because I will not waste money on an anthology for one story, sorry but it's not gonna happen, Westeros or not - that the second Dance will be part of the second War of the Dawn, rather than a succession war. Only one dragon is rider sized, and while I know GRRM intended that five year gap, even without that it seems to me that everything points to Dany and her dragons' fate being about the Others. Not to mention the time constraint of getting Dany and Drogon, plus two dragons she hasn't got control of or proximity to, to Westeros, with at least one other rider also having time to bond with a dragon.

It doesn't seem likely to me with all the other hanging plotlines, so I conclude that whether it's wighted dragons, ice dragons, one of Dany's dragons being Otherized/wighted, or something else, the second Dance won't be in a similar context of succession war, it'll be similar in that it's a battle involving dragons of some sort on both sides.

Going back to the original point of this thread, and something that kept coming up a few pages back (just read this entire thread) a few people noted that the Greatjon took the Castamere mines, thus Castamere must have been unflooded/still have gold/etc.

Actually, if I remember correctly, the reading notes indicate that the Reynes only built rooms into exhausted parts of their mines. Which means whatever Greatjon took, whatever Rolph Spicer has now, is the land over the flooded mines and the mines that were still in use for mining. Most likely these never flooded - the lordlings wouldn't want to see or hear miners so connections, if any existed, would probably have been long tunnels with doors not opened except for shipments or something. Which would most likely have been halted when, y'know, an army is coming.

Edit: autocorrect thinks plotlines should be playtimes.

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The discussion in the Daily Facts made me think of something that's most appropriate for this thread. Also, considering this is 25 pages, I'm probably repeating someone here, but felt like posting it anyway.



The legends of how Lann wrested control of Casterly Rock was one of the most enjoyable parts of the summary for me. On top of that, we have the argument of if the Lannisters are a predominately Andal or First Men house. Many have speculated Lann was an Andal adventurer who simply arrived much earlier than the invasion. Fair enough, but if you take the alternative that he was indeed a First Man as an underling of the Casterly's (don't care what social station you put him at), what if he was also a very adept warg? Capable of controlling a host of lions at a single time? According to a SSM long ago, I believe there used to be a multitude of the great beasts residing within the Rock itself. That would be a pretty cool explanation, or at least more fun for us as readers than some of the absurd legends that have apparently been conjured up.


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The actual History of the Westerlands that appears in TWOIAF has some fairly significant differences from what GRRM read at ConCarolinas.



Here's the breakdown (TWOIAF spoilers obv):



http://joannalannister.tumblr.com/post/100900149356/lannisters-cut-from-the-world-book



A couple of these changes appear to be corrections

(Quellon Greyjoy raiding Fair Isle, and Ellyn's Reyne's death, which was described differently in ASOIAF)



But the majority seem to be things that were cut for space. Ran could almost certainly clarify some of this.



Either way, these extra cut details are pretty cool, definitely worth checking out.

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