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KCenturion

(Spoilers) The History of the Westerlands

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Do we know who was on the Great Council of 233?

Was it just Maekar's Small Council, or the Wardens or did Bloodraven summon the 8 Great Lords to King's Landing?

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I wonder why did the Reynes and Tarbacks just suddenly decide to be assholes and rebel against the Lannisters, like what was their main goals. They were outnumbered because no other houses joined them so what was their motivation and their ultimate plan because Tywin obviously had the force of the Westerlands behind him so they were not going to win at all.

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I wonder why did the Reynes and Tarbacks just suddenly decide to be assholes and rebel against the Lannisters, like what was their main goals. They were outnumbered because no other houses joined them so what was their motivation and their ultimate plan because Tywin obviously had the force of the Westerlands behind him so they were not going to win at all.

Did he? I can imagine a lot of lords sitting this one out, since they didn't have faith in Tytos. Did the reading say anything about it?

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Did he? I can imagine a lot of lords sitting this one out, since they didn't have faith in Tytos. Did the reading say anything about it?

Well if was Tywin who led them but I don't think it was mentioned in the reading about all the other bannermen backing Tywin though I thought it was mentioned in ASOIAF in one of the books.

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That is when Tywin got his forces together and conveniently forgot to tell his father what he was doing, his father being hidden away in Casterly rock with his lover (a nurse maid).

Any mention on who the nurse maid was there for, besides Tytos?

I have no idea who would have been a baby or child at that time.

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It was said that the Reins and Tarbecks were becoming prosperous. Ellyn refurbished the hall, bought lesser lands, built roads and septs and by 255 supported 500 household knights

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Well if was Tywin who led them but I don't think it was mentioned in the reading about all the other bannermen backing Tywin though I thought it was mentioned in ASOIAF in one of the books.

Since Tywin acted without Tytos knowing it, I'd imagine that he couldn't gather all the other Lords. I would guess he took soldiers of the Lannisters and Marbrands and soldiers of the Lords he'd meet on his way to the Tarbecks and the Reynes (since the Reynes were stealing land, those Lords surrounding their land would have joined Tywin).

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The surrender of the Reynes was rejected because it was a piss poor surrender, full of sarcasm, because they were convinced that they could hide away in their underground fortress for three years of a siege.

In this case, I honestly can't fault Tywin for flooding them, even though women and children died also. It is always a risk during sieges, too. Or when castles are stormed.

It seems, that he had a very good cause for attacking in the first place, as well - killing of his Marbrand grandfather and his forces.

So, when and where did all the actual child-murders occur? At castle Tarbeck? Somewhere else? And was there also fighting against the Ironborn raiders?

Generally, it looks to me as if the situation in the West was genuinely rather bleak and something had to be done.

Was Jeyne Marbrand already dead at this point, or did the poor woman have to cope with her husband's philandering, in addition to everything else?

How large were Tywin's forces and those of Reynes and Tarbecks? I assume, that he couldn't have assembled all the forces of the West quickly enough for his father not to notice?

From Barristan's explanation I was under impression that Aerys was present at Tywin's marriage while still a prince, BTW. His mentions of the Lord's First Night are completely out of place anyway, IMHO, since I am pretty sure that nobles weren't subject to it, only peasants and possibly other commoners and they likely could buy exemptions, too, like in IRL Middle Ages, where it was all empty ritual justifying marriage fees.

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It was said that the Reins and Tarbecks were becoming prosperous. Ellyn refurbished the hall, bought lesser lands, built roads and septs and by 255 supported 500 household knights

I honestly don't see why this is a problem unless it harmed anyone.

Did Ellyn steal money to refurbish her hall or buy land?

She built roads which sounds ideal and the great lords should take a leaf from her book, and Septs are good to and it don't see anything wrong with 500 household knights they are no different than her bannermen IMO.

I don't see the big deal

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I guess it was Jaehaerys. He supposedly was 'a weak king', but much sterner than Hizdahr, according to Barristan, so I guess written a letter and commanding his Warden of the West to deal with the situation would be the kind of thing Jaehaerys would do. Egg would have dispatched someone to investigate the whole thing, and help dealing with situation I imagine, and Aerys really seems to have appointed Tywin at once after his coronation. He pretty much fired all the all done men who had still been leftovers from his grandfather's reign.

LugaJetboyGirl-irra,

anything more on the whole Maekar and Blackfyre rebellion thing? Or interesting tidbits throughout the centuries of the long Lannister reign (both as Kings of the Rock and during the Targaryen era)?

Actually the king that told Tytos to get his shit together was Aegon 5. After he died and jaehaerys took over the situation in the west got even worse with the vassals doing whatever they wanted

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Did he? I can imagine a lot of lords sitting this one out, since they didn't have faith in Tytos. Did the reading say anything about it?

I think everyone was taking advantage of Tytos' terrible rule.but once Tywin absolutely destroyed the Tarbecks, the supporters did not come. Also there was no time to amass a big enough army since Tywin made his in a fury after his grandfather was killed by the reynes

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Unfortunately a lot of your speculations are incorrect but it is too overwhelming to respond to them all. Again, probably in the next day or so History of Westeros and ashatayara will post their detailed notes.

The King who chastised Tytos was Egg. Of course, Summerhall interfered with his involvement.

Lots of widows and children slaughtered at Tarbeck.

Tytos had been such a terrible ruler for so long that the lords and powers of the westerlands had split their allegiance. The Reynes and Tarbecks had been consolidating their power for about 20 years by this time. They hadn't just decided to be assholes, they'd been living under a total incompetent and pathetic ruler for all of that time, plus Ellyn Reyne had her sights on being the ruling lady of the Westerlands for ages.

Edit: Tywin spent an entire year getting his plans and forces together before destroying the Reynes. Tytos was incompetent so didn't know.

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I also imagined that Aerys was not yet king when Joanna and Tywin married, but that doesn't make any sense now. And Aerys' comment is actually much more interesting if Aerys is truly king - and thus Tywin's liege lord - by then, not just a prince.



OneEyedRaven,



that's great to know, thank you! We should keep in mind that this situation must have grown worse in time and over the years and decades. It really seems as if some fruits were sown back when Ellyn was desperately trying to become Lady of Casterly Rock, and then the thing grew worse over time.



And to repeat myself:



Any details on the Fourth Blackfyre Rebellion and what exactly led to the death of Maekar? Was just Lord Peake rebelling or was this part of a larger campaign?



Oh, and any hints whether Ellyn Reyne and her brother had a Lannister mother or grandmother?


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I also imagined that Aerys was not yet king when Joanna and Tywin married, but that doesn't make any sense now. And Aerys' comment is actually much more interesting if Aerys is truly king - and thus Tywin's liege lord - by then, not just a prince.

OneEyedRaven,

that's great to know, thank you! We should keep in mind that this situation must have grown worse in time and over the years and decades. It really seems as if some fruits were sown back when Ellyn was desperately trying to become Lady of Casterly Rock, and then the thing grew worse over time.

And to repeat myself:

Any details on the Fourth Blackfyre Rebellion and what exactly led to the death of Maekar? Was just Lord Peake rebelling or was this part of a larger campaign?

Oh, and any hints whether Ellyn Reyne and her brother had a Lannister mother or grandmother?

We didn't get many details on the 4th rebellion other than the deaths of Maekar and the oldest of Gerolds sons (I think his name was Tybolt? It was only in like 2 sentences of the hour long talk

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Another detail from that war is that Dunk the Tall slew Daemon IV Blackfyre.

Gerolds youngest son died on the Stepstones. Tion Lannister was slain by Maelys the Monstrous.

The reason why these wars are mentioned is that the deaths greatly upset Lannister power and led to Tytos incompetent rule as he was the third son

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Lord Varys,

There was not a whole lot on Maekar's death, it was sort of thrown in there in descriptions of the Lannisters. Others can probably remember more than I.

Edit: what one eyed raven said.

Edit: oh, and the Reynes killed at Castamere numbered about 300, many of them women and children, although not all. The Red Lion had been shot in the back and was fading fast because of the injury, and his clever brother was the one running the show at the time. Apparently as the Reynes drowned they screamed for help and tried to dig themselves out, but then things got quiet and the entrances of Castamere were never opened up again.

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Yeah Ellyn Reyne sounds like a real piece of work and I understand why Tywin had to do what he did but slaughtering widows and the children, I don't get that it's so much overkill.

I hope we get info on Casterly Rock other than that I'm not that too interested in the Westerlands' history or any Lannister besides Tyrion so eh.

But it sounds like such great work

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Wait, so there was Daemon Blackfyre I, amd he called two of.his children Daemon too? Well, damned if that doesnt lead to some confusion. Or was Daemon III the son of one of Daemon I's children?

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Another detail from that war is that Dunk the Tall slew Daemon IV Blackfyre.

Gerolds youngest son died on the Stepstones. Tion Lannister was slain by Maelys the Monstrous.

The reason why these wars are mentioned is that the deaths greatly upset Lannister power and led to Tytos incompetent rule as he was the third son

We heard it was Daemon III earlier. Grandson of Daemon I.

To confirm, Tion was killed way before the Ninepenny Kings?

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