(Spoilers) The History of the Westerlands

[Mithras]

Sorry, have to bring this up;

This to me calls into question the idea of the "Dance 2.0" that many speculste based on GRRMs comment. Some believed that we have too little time left in he novels the fit it in, and when this is considered, we've already had one "Dance of Dragons" before the main one...just throwing that out there...

I think there is plenty of time available for Dance 2.0.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

For God's sake. There is a prophecy about the next Dance of Dragons in one of TWOW chapters.

I would call it simple overshadowing, not necessarily a prophecy. ;)

[Lady Baela Targaryen]

I would call it simple overshadowing, not necessarily a prophecy. ;)

It was a prophetic dream, not foreshadowing.

[Lord Varys]

Whatever is going to bring down Maegor, it's most likely no outright war, but a series of skirmishes, involving many factions - Targaryen princes, the Faith Militant, various lords, lots of smallfolk etc. The Dance was the worst all-out war Westeros ever had, pretty much everyone declared for one of the factions, whereas what we know of Prince Aegon's rebellion, it was not exactly backed up by many people.

I'd not be surprised if Jaehaerys had 2-3 elder brothers besides Aegon who were killed/died in battle during Maegor's reign, until eventually Jaehaerys - the youngest or second youngest son of Aenys I - had most of the Realm beside him against Maegor. But since we know that Maegor was killed on/by the Iron Throne, my guess is that Maegor's fall was not so much a war pretty much everyone defecting to Jaehaerys. And in the end Maegor was murdered.

[RumHam]

Prince Aegon and his dragon Quicksilver - formerly Aenys' dragon - perished in a battle at the God's Eye.

In "The Battle Beneath the Gods' Eye," which seems like a strange name. The Gods' Eye is the lake, right? not some mythical thing in the sky over it? Did they fight underwater or something?

[Maia]

For God's sake. There is a prophecy about the next Dance of Dragons in one of TWOW chapters.

It is a vision that is quite open to interpretation, IMHO. There was nothing in it concerning dragons fighting each other, just that they would cause a lot of deaths. Well, Dany has already done so and Aegon is starting on his part of it, but personally I don't think that there is going to be any kind of protracted conflict between the 2 of them.

It is mostly a desire of Targ/Dany haters to see them being uselessly destructive that leads to constant predictions of the Second Dance, IMHO...

[The Sleeper]

This whole affair with the Reynes seems like a family quarell gone horribly wrong. I mean Ellyn Reyne lived in the Rock a significant part of her life and Roger Reyne had taken two Lannisters in consecutive generations as squires.

[Mithras]

It is a vision that is quite open to interpretation, IMHO. There was nothing in it concerning dragons fighting each other, just that they would cause a lot of deaths. Well, Dany has already done so and Aegon is starting on his part of it, but personally I don't think that there is going to be any kind of protracted conflict between the 2 of them.

It is mostly a desire of Targ/Dany haters to see them being uselessly destructive that leads to constant predictions of the Second Dance, IMHO...

Ser Waymar Dance-With-Me-Then Royce disagrees.

[Lady Baela Targaryen]

It is a vision that is quite open to interpretation, IMHO. There was nothing in it concerning dragons fighting each other, just that they would cause a lot of deaths. Well, Dany has already done so and Aegon is starting on his part of it, but personally I don't think that there is going to be any kind of protracted conflict between the 2 of them.

It is mostly a desire of Targ/Dany haters to see them being uselessly destructive that leads to constant predictions of the Second Dance, IMHO...

Well, that dream was about dancing dragons. When dragons danced previously, there was a Targaryen civil war. Aegon I's Conquest, where dragons did lots of damage, was never called the Dance.

And I'm not a Targ or Dany hater and posts like "You only expect the second Dance of Dragons because you hate Dany/Targs!!!" are very annoying. I have no desire to talk to you after that.

[Mark Antony]

And I'm not a Targ or Dany hater and posts like "You only expect the second Dance of Dragons because you hate Dany/Targs!!!" are very annoying. I have no desire to talk to you after that.

Yeah I like Dany. Still can't wait for the next Dance. Faegon is fucked :devil:

[Bael's Bastard]

If I understand correctly, there were at least two sons of Aenys older than Jaehaerys, and it is now confirmed that Maegor openly usurped the throne from his brother's sons?

[Mrs.Grumpy]

as far as i can tell, Alyssa + Aenys = Aegon, Viserys, Rhaena, Jaehaerys and Alysanne.

Aegon and Rhaena were married and they had got twin daughters. Viserys (he was 15) was tortured (for 5 or 9 days) and killed by Tyanna because Alyssa took Dark Sister and left for Dragonstone after Visenya's death and Battle Benath the God's Eye. Rhaena later somehow married with Maegor, hence "the black bride".

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

It is a vision that is quite open to interpretation, IMHO. There was nothing in it concerning dragons fighting each other, just that they would cause a lot of deaths. Well, Dany has already done so and Aegon is starting on his part of it, but personally I don't think that there is going to be any kind of protracted conflict between the 2 of them.

It is mostly a desire of Targ/Dany haters to see them being uselessly destructive that leads to constant predictions of the Second Dance, IMHO...

To be honest, I think even GRRM mentioned a second Dance once, but it was in a rather vague description, IIRC.

Well, that dream was about dancing dragons. When dragons danced previously, there was a Targaryen civil war. Aegon I's Conquest, where dragons did lots of damage, was never called the Dance.

We've had multiple wars between Targaryens, should they all count as a Dance?

Maegor versus Aenys' children

Rhaenyra versus Aegon II

Daeron II versus Daemon I

Blackfyre Rebellion 3

Blackfyre Rebellion 4

War of the Ninepenny Kings.

That dragons will be dancing, and that everywhere they danced, people died, means that Targaryens (or perhaps even, those with Targaryen blood) will cause death where they come. It doesn't necessarily mean they'll be fighting each other. I think that was what was meant above.

[Lord Varys]

Maia,

yes, marrying Rohanne to the son Waldarran's eldest son from his first marriage would make more sense. The next Lord Tarbeck would have been a descendant from Lord Waldarran's eldest son in any case. And when Tywin eradicated the house, Waldarran's children and grandchildren who did not participate in the fighting would have still been alive.

But considering Ellyn's personality, I'd really not be surprised if she married one of her daughters to a stepson. But the uncle-niece marriage thing makes indeed much more sense, and would also fit much better age-wise.

On Tytos:

We have to keep in mind that Tytos' children were still very young (not even born) when Tytos became Lord. And his brother Jason, the only male Lannister close enough to main branch to try to control was 7/9 years (conflicting sources on that one, I think), which would have made it difficult for him, to say the least. Especially since Jason seems to have had his own flaws (impregnating women from a very early age onwards). It seems to me that Tytos arranged his two marriages (the Stackspear girl he impregnated and the Marla Prester), and I guess this sort of behavior was exactly the sort of thing Tytos hated in his brother/children. If they were mistreated others or were not courteous he apparently was somewhat harsh...

The chandler's daughter rose to power and prominence after Tywin was named Hand and spent his time in KL. Jason was already dead, and Kevan, Tygett, and Gerion most certainly were not able to control their father. And it did not seem to be all that necessary after the Reynes and Tarbecks were dealt with. The Lords of the West knew what the Lion was capable of when roused, and Tywin had now the ear of King Aerys II as well. Tytos' famous mistress cannot have been more than a minor nuisance to the Lannisters, but I can now really understand why Tytos' children did not exactly like her.

I guess Egg reached out to/asked Tytos to send his son to court, to ensure that the next Lord Lannister would be better material. If the Lion and the Dragon grew somewhat close due to the whole Rohanne/Gerold thing - I'm pretty sure that Gerold swaying the Great Council to make Egg king is no coincidence! -, it's not unlikely that Egg took a personal interest in the well-being of Gerold's grandson.

On Aerys and Tywin:

The Prince of Dragonstone should be able to knight somebody, even if he is no knight himself. Although it's easily imaginable that Aerys was knighted when his father became king. Just as a courtesy and for appearances sake...

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

as far as i can tell, Alyssa + Aenys = Aegon, Viserys, Rhaena, Jaehaerys and Alysanne.

Aegon and Rhaena were married and they had got twin daughters. Viserys (he was 15) was tortured (for 5 or 9 days) and killed by Tyanna because Alyssa took Dark Sister and left for Dragonstone after Visenya's death and Battle Benath the God's Eye. Rhaena later somehow married with Maegor, hence "the black bride".

But if Rhaena was at CR when Aegon died, how did she end up with Maegor? She was still under guest right, even after her husband/brother died, right?

[Mrs.Grumpy]

Now I wonder if Ellyn was a sorcerer or it was just a coincedence (why would she wanted to rain it all the time anyway?). And damn! Morgon Banefort!!

I imagine him as a man under a black hood (clever, right?)

I think we will hear more about magic in this book :o

[RumHam]

From the wiki:

Although it is non-canon information, in the comic book adaptation of The Hedge Knight the name of Ser Denys Marbrand is given on the roll of arms.

So now he's confirmed, I'm wondering if there's any other info to be gleaned from these comic book adaptions.

[Ser Leftwich]

If Ser Amory Lorch was a knight already in 260, that would make him ~55 when he died. That is not the age I pictured.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

From the wiki:

So now he's confirmed, I'm wondering if there's any other info to be gleaned from these comic book adaptions.

Wait what? I can't find that in my copy of the comic adaption..?

[Lord Varys]

It's possible that Rhaena accompanied Aegon to the God's Eye. She rode Dreamfyre, after all. If Aegon did not have the support of (most of) the major lords, he would have had needed all the dragons he could get. They would have to face Balerion, after all...

Rhaena's twin daughters could have stayed at CR.

Idle speculation on the Blackfyre rebellions:

Before the reading, I expect at least two major rebellions in Aerys' and Maekar's reigns. Aerys I was supposedly weak, and Maekar would be the ideal king to rally opposition against - he is a kinslayer, and not liked all that much, it seems.

Since the Fourth Rebellion happened in 236 AC, the Third could now have happened either during Aerys or Maekar's reign. Considering that Aerys already had a Blackfyre Rebellion, my guess is that Third occurred during Maekar's reign, possibly at the very beginning. If Bittersteel was smart - no idea if that's really the case - he would have tried to rally the Lords behind Haegon or his younger brother upon Aerys' death, counting on the fact that there would be a war for succession/power between Bloodraven and Maekar.

There is also room for major politicking behind the scenes. Was the Third Rebellion fought in the name of Daemon II who was still a prisoner at KL, with Haegon or one of the younger brothers serving as non-kingly figurehead? Had Bittersteel a hand in the deaths of Rhaegel, his sons, and Aerys I?

[A really funny development would be if Aerys I turned out to be gay, not asexual/completely disinterested in sex, and eventually started a relationship with 'Queen Daemon', while the latter was a hostage in KL. But I guess that's too good to be true...]

Another interesting question is whether Dunk was already a KG in 232 when Maekar died? Egg apparently fought in the battle, too, so Dunk was most certainly close by. It seems Dunk was a KG when he slew Daemon III Blackfyre in 236.