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[Book Spoilers] EP408 Discussion

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I gave it a 4, it was an ok episode.


I liked the duel a lot, except for the end because i had a really strong image from the book of the Mountain killing Oberyn in just one mounstrous blow, but that just a personal thing. Also that scene left me wondering, can a head actually explode like that?and with only the hands?


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Anyone else worried abou how they're going to get Arya out of the Vale now that Sandor spilled her name?

Maybe they will think Arya was an imposter... since why would Lady Arryn's true neice laugh at news of her aunt's death? ;)

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Sansa OWNED! I love how she sort of leaned back on her previous lie--wherein she took a truth and refashioned it to suit her immediate need (her lie to Lysa). She's tested it, she's not just having a lucky moment of inspired thought. It's a personal happy buttons thing, but I've always preferred it when characters think things through than strike it lucky.



Her revealing herself works better in the show version. Even if the characters in a show shouldn't know, I think there's an intrinsic disconnect when a main character is masquerading as someone else and the viewer knows what's what. Sometimes it's smoothed over with tension--is his/her secret about to be exposed?!--but the Vale lords don't quite fit that. So yeah, I thought it worked well to have Sansa basically swearing THEM to secrecy. Plus, Lady Anya looked like a badass Valkyrie! If we accept show!LF without the shadow of the books, I thought it was pretty neat having him be taken a wee bit off-guard by how savvy she was. Off-guard, but psyched.



Erm, yeah, Ramsay and Roose are awesome. Is it just me or did show!Ramsay seem very book!Ramsay when he kneeled before Roose? Iwan Rheon's one of those rubbery actors who can change his look so much.



I was sad we didn't have Theon's "I've got less than nothing to lose so imma gonna be pretty damn effective" Moat Cailin moment, but I thumbs-upped the parallel with S2. Theon seeing for himself how ridiculous a final stand was, but also seeing the dude's hardbitten pride. Gah. Would he rather be the guy who died in a stupid last stand, or Reek?


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The lord said Lysa Arryn died two days ago, and then I broke out laughing. What I didn't expect was Arya doing the same. Loved it!

Worried about the new Sansa, especially her costume, more like a dominatrix. I really really don't want her sleeping with Baelish.

:ack: I hope not. But it looks like they're going into new territory, possibly TWOW; and maybe GRRM has written Sansa as being more of a temptress; hopefully just stringing LF along, but she might have to indulge more of his :ack: :ack: fantasies without actually giving up her maidenhead (which LF would hopefully be smart enough to want preserved).

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Ok, I thought about it before giving my opinion. I didn't like the final Sansa scene because that's not who Sansa is. This whole "girl gets sexy make over to show improvement and self confidence and how she's ready to kick some ass!" it's something I hate, specially with Sansa who wanted to rule with love and be loved. Specially because in the show, Sansa changes from this to this, and we know that the latest wasn't but an illusion Sansa got trapped into, and it was what caused the ruin of her family (the illusion, I mean. Not her).



While I'm not a Sansa fan, I kinda feel what Stannis' fans feel, to be honest. Like the character has been "ruined", but I won't complain about it, though. I'll go and sulk at Sumerhall.


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Maybe they just won't believe him? Or maybe Bolton's will claim they have the real Arya in Winterfell?

Any way they send Arya to Braavos, it will be very contrived after all these changes, that's for sure. I refuse to believe she will end in Ramsay's hands.

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I rewatched LF's trial scene and I still can't really understand what Sansa's motivations would be to save LF's ass by lying for him. The only thing I can think of is going back to season 2 (IIRC) when LF tells Sansa “Look around you, we're all liars here and every one of us is better than you.” Maybe the meaning finally clicked for Sansa after her aunt nearly tossed her out of the moon door that she would need to become a better liar and--I don't know.


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Maybe they will think Arya was an imposter... since why would Lady Arryn's true neice laugh at news of her aunt's death? ;)

That would be a way. Which would deem the whole affair of arriving-at-thebloody-gate innecessary, but it would be a way.

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I just read the official westeros review of this episode and have never been more disgusted in my life. I appreciate the site runners for giving us this forum. But frankly I will never read anything they write about this show again.


Edited by Tanda's Lintrum

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I rewatched LF's trial scene and I still can't really understand what Sansa's motivations would be to save LF's ass by lying for him. The only thing I can think of is going back to season 2 (IIRC) when LF tells Sansa “Look around you, we're all liars here and every one of us is better than you.” Maybe the meaning finally clicked for Sansa after her aunt nearly tossed her out of the moon door that she would need to become a better liar and--I don't know.

I took is as LF surmised--better the devil you know. Lords and ladies have brutalized her; she had no reason to think these would rush to her defense if she threw LF under the bus.

Edited by PhoenixFlame

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Ellaria! Oh my gosh I love Indira in this! Her "you go babe, take your vengeance!" face near the end, vs. her screaming horror at the end, really hit me in the feels.



Dany...eh, not really wild about Clark's acting. I liked Jorah's shaking anguish, but I always get a stagey feel from Dany. It works onstage, and can work on onscreen if all the actors are doing it (take Titus, for instance) but it sticks out here.


Edited by PhoenixFlame

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Indira Varma's reaction to Oberyn dying was fucking spectacular btw. She's just great!

That has to be the ultimate "high and low" for both her and tyrion. go from almost assured victory to brutal horrifying death in like 10 seconds.

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I gotta be honest...I didn't really like the episode, I hated pretty much everything



- Script-wise, D&D (I'm assuming they wrote it, I don't really know) were at their very low. Tyrion's infinite speech about fucking beetles, what the flying fuck was that? Roose showing Ramsay the cardinal points, like what? No, very, very weak



- Sansa's storyline is absolutely changed now. We're officially in WoW, folks. I was expecting Harry the Heir to pop from behind a column



- Missandei and Grey Worm...lame, really



- And, oh, my god, the beginning of the episode with the burping whore. That was a new low if I ever saw one


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What a weird episode! I'm left with a lot of questions, I really didn't like any of the changes and I don't know what they're trying to accomplish by them...




So, what's happening with Sansa now?


What was the point of her wearing that fancy dress? Why did they made it look so meaningful?


Did Tywin fake that letter or was it just lost in the mail?


What happened to Arya and Sandor's horses?


Why did they make Littlefinger look like such a pussy in the scene that should have showed everyone what a truly brilliant manipulator he is?


BEETLES?!?!


Why didn't the Night's Watch send someone to Mole's Town to warn them like they did in the book?


Why isn't there a word for cousin killing!?


Does Grey Worm have a dick?


Where do whores go?


Who killed Mr Burns?


Why are we here?



So confused....

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It boggles my mind how some people can complain about how the show lacks subtlety and subtext, but then can't understand the subtlety and subtext of the beetle scene.

So much this.

I took it as insight on how Tyrion realizes himself having a position of power. His cousin is analgous to some of the terrible nobility that have no regard for the people they rule over.

Even more important, I think Jaime listened intently and will use the story as a reflection on his past self and who he wants to become.

Not to mention the damn fine acting of Dinklage.

Edited by Tony Stark

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I gotta be honest...I didn't really like the episode, I hated pretty much everything

- Script-wise, D&D (I'm assuming they wrote it, I don't really know) were at their very low. Tyrion's infinite speech about fucking beetles, what the flying fuck was that? Roose showing Ramsay the cardinal points, like what? No, very, very weak

- Sansa's storyline is absolutely changed now. We're officially in WoW, folks. I was expecting Harry the Heir to pop from behind a column

- Missandei and Grey Worm...lame, really

- And, oh, my god, the beginning of the episode with the burping whore. That was a new low if I ever saw one

This. Very poor episode all around.

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