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[Book Spoilers] EP408 Discussion

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Hello, long time lurker, first time poster.


I just wanted to say that the duel was fantastic and even though I knew it was coming I was mindblowned by Oberyn's death. The screams. THE SCREAMS!


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Really found to episode to be excellent and actually pretty hysticarical, which was needed given the weight of the Oberyn death scene, the serious turn with Jorah's departure and Tyrion's impending change of scenery.



That stretch of 10 minutes or so though where we got Arya laughing after hearing her aunt was dead while Sandor stands dumbfounded, Littlefinger mentioning "Some people die on their chamber pots" (wink wink, nudge nudge) and then the faces Jaime and Tyrion make while imitating the beetle-smashing was just fantastic. If someone finds/makes a gif of that last scene please let me know; it's gold.



Great ep. IMO.


Edited by When Harry met Sansa

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You could also say Arya laughing is a bunch of metahumor. All the dead relatives (and dead mentors), all the near-misses of family members in the books and on the show...it was poking some fun at the situation.


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No word for cousin killing. Since Tywins death is kinda foreshadowed by LF, anyone thinks someone will kill a cousin?

Sansa killing Robin will be symmetrical. At KL, two people talk about killing cousins, and at Vale, two people talk about dying in a privy.

Other possibility: Jaime killing Lancel, though I see no point in that.

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The part with the beetles wasn't bad. But come on... people wanted the battle. I did. Bad terrible timing. They could have done it better at the start of the episode.

Anyway, the whole beetle thing is that even those who think they have the power, from idiots like Cersei, capable men like Tywin or entitled twatbeards like Littlefinger is that they can be outplayed too and be destroyed easily. Oberyn was winning and he then died.

When Tyrion asked his trial by combat, many Unsullied though Jaime would be his champion. Why? Because, among other reasons, as he was training with Bronn, he would suddenly unlock the super power of love and become powerful and defeat the opponent. We know that wouldn't have happened. He had been crushed by the Mountain. Here is the same. We thought that Oberyn would win and get justice for Elia and her kids, but the Mountain outplayed him during a reckless moment. Shit happens.

Well when reading the book I thought Jaime at least trying to step in for his brother would have been cool. I realized he would have got rocked, Idk it kinda would have been pretty badass though haha. But I honestly thought Oberyn's path to revenge would lead him to become a POV. Man was I wrong.

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Amazing episode, way better than the last one.

I really liked the Vale, was really surprised, but in a good way. I gasped when LF said about people dying taking shits, and had to cough to cover my surprise and avoid my reaction to spoiler or hint my family.

The duel was S P E C T A C U L A R.

Pascal was amazing, he really nailed it. I'm going to miss him.

Also, I loved when he demanded to know who gave the order (he didn't in the book, did he?)

My nitpicking goes to Ygritte, and her spare-baby-I've-a-tender-heart depiction with all the blood dripping from the ceiling (that btw, that was awesome!). We know that Ygritte is a good girl, and that Gilly needs to live, but I thought it a bit cheesy. I loved the scene, although: someone had to take care of ugly whore.

The one thing I expected and was disapointed that didn't feature was the dialogue at Moat Cailin when Theonn goes around kicking the corpses, and when he asks who is guarding a tower, he realises it's a dead man, or something of the sort. I remember laughing really hard when reading that scene, and I just expected HBO making it a funny scene =(

Agreed! I thought it was a great episode! The duel was amazing and Pascal - Perfection. Definitely going to miss him.

I guess I would be nitpicky about Arya's identity being revealed, and Sansa... her becoming this sort of temptress - did I miss something in the books?! It was kind of an off thing to happen at the moment, I remember her in the books as being a little bit more quiet and just following Littlefinger's lead... I wonder how far they're going with her new attitude - how far they will take her and LF's relationship...

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Did someone else notice the foreshadowing of Tywin's death when Littlefinger is talking to Robin? "People die all the time etc. ,..., even on their chamber pots"!!
I guess they are going to keep Tywin's death scene the same as in the books...

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Hello, long time lurker, first time poster.

I just wanted to say that the duel was fantastic and even though I knew it was coming I was mindblowned by Oberyn's death. The screams. THE SCREAMS!

They will haunt me. It was like watching a loved one. We are all Ellaria.

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Yes, I've thought about that too, she's playing him. But she's than playing the game too early already.

It's just, I didn't like the imagery. Many reasons can be given as why is she doing this, in the same way many reasons can be given explaining why Stannis burned "infidels"

I know its sudden and struck me off guard too. But im ok with it. More than ok. Mostly because im ready for this kind of Sansa now. Ive been ready.

I bet these people watch The Silence of the Lambs and are like, "Why does Clarice spend ten minutes talking about some stupid lambs? I wanna see Hannibal eat some people already!!!"

looool yeah they are. They are the people who cant sit still in movie theaters and wonder why theres no action.

There are different ways to interpret the beetle story. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer.

There is one incorrect way to interpret it and its this: That its pointless and adds nothing to the narrative.

That story adds a lot to Tyrion's character development, where his character is going, why he suddenly slips into Sherlock Scan Mode in ADWD material, and a layer of absurdity in this world of Cracksack. It also reflects on a lot of other arcs. Arya's murder motives, Brienne's fruitless search, Cersei's idiocy and handling the realm, Ramsay's brutality, Dany's fumbling of the responsibilities of ruling, etc.

Its there for a reason and it works. Sorry Beetle Haters, but deal with it.

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I personally like that lf isn't the Gary stu he was in the books, that he can make mistakes of that something can be out of his control. People treat that book characteristic, the perfection, like it's a credit to his character, but I think it detracts.

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I'm sort of upset that they didn't give the Crannogmen credit for poisoning the Ironborn. At least they showed them being sick. Would it have been too much to ask for to have a "bleeping bog devils" or something?


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There are different ways to interpret the beetle story. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer.

Considering what happened to Oberyn you could even say that was a foreshadowing of another mindless killing machine smashing another creature just for the sheer pleasure of it, with Tyrion not understanding how that could have happened. A stretch, but eh.

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I'm sort of upset that they didn't give the Crannogmen credit for poisoning the Ironborn. At least they showed them being sick. Would it have been too much to ask for to have a "bleeping bog devils" or something?

Yes because it would have needed explaining, the show watchers need things to be as subtle as a brick or they don't catch it.

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Since the eye gouging was 'spoiled' by Lena's IG post..I'm just going to assume 100% that LS will be appearing because of the other pic she has up.

Yep. Had this thought too.

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Did someone else notice the foreshadowing of Tywin's death when Littlefinger is talking to Robin? "People die all the time etc. ,..., even on their chamber pots"!!

I guess they are going to keep Tywin's death scene the same as in the books...

Had me like :rofl:

The amount of foreshadowing in this episode was pretty huge. Thought they did a really good job with the order tonight too. Having the Arya bit with her laughing because she realizes just how easy it is for people to die right after talking about how she'll be a better killer than Sandor (who is also about to "die" in the show via what he calls a flea bite, i.e. a pretty insignificant, little thing) and then immediately cutting to LF talking about all the ways to die (most of them doing ordinary things) was just fantastic. Also foreboding knowing his plans for Robin.

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