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[Book Spoilers] EP408 Discussion

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Just watched the episode, and even knowing what was coming, I felt sick to my stomach by that ending. DAYUM I really liked Show-Oberyn


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I can't remember all of Sansa's AFFC stuff but how much was there besides the marillion trial and heading down south? looks like they're done with that.


Edited by Tall Tyrion Lannister!

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I can't remember all of Sansa's AFFC stuff but how much was there besides the marillion trial and heading down south? looks like they're done with that.

There's still the Harry the Heir plan, assuming they're keeping it.

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That letter got to Meereen awfully fast, even for Raven standards. And it was too large too for a Raven to carry comfortably.



I wonder if adding Moat Cailin to the intro for such a short scene means we will also have Stannis taking it back next season. Hopefully he doesn't dwell too long at the Wall.


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I can't remember all of Sansa's AFFC stuff but how much was there besides the marillion trial and heading down south? looks like they're done with that.

There was Sansa getting SweetRobin down the mountain with Myranda and Mya and then reuniting with Littlefinger, which advanced her metamorphasis from scared Sansa Stark to Littlefinger's Apprentice slowly and believably. While I though Sophie Turner did very well with the lines she was given, I found it harder to believe that in one or two days, Sansa goes from terrified, victimized (physically by Lysa, sexually by Littlefinger with that unsolicited kiss) girl to a cunning manipulator capable of selling 'lies and Arbor gold' to lords (and a lady) three times her age and surprising Littlefinger himself, not to mention the acknowledgment of Littlefinger's sexual interest in her.

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I had a totally different view on Arya's laughter. She was laughnig at the Hound. Remember, he is still on her list, so she doesn't like him. She despises him, and would have left him had she had the chance to survive a trip on her own. He's been trying to ransom her for some time now, but once again, time has prevented him from getting what he wanted. She was laughng in his face.

Nope. Definitely not. Exasperation. She's been in arms reach of salvation more times than she can count and the futility of her efforts just gobsmacked her.

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I didn't like this episode at all. All the changes and additions are really making it hard for me to enjoy the show.


Edited by kkae

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There are elements in this season which makes me believe that Benioff did not use only the begining of AFFC and ADWD and the last half of ASOS to make the show, they gave us some of WOW

Yes, next season will include a fair amount of WOW and the show is going to finish before the last novel is out. George will probably change the story up, but for me, I am just happy that I get to see a version which is obviously sanctioned by the author.

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Nope. Definitely not. Exasperation. She's been in arms reach of salvation more times than she can count and the futility of her efforts just gobsmacked her.

Agree. This was her Sirius Black laughing after Pettigrew blasted apart the street moment.

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I still think they failed to show the process that was turning Sansa into a game of thrones player... And more Littlefinger looked like a fool. So now that show's Sansa is on the game what about her next chapters? Now that they just jumped over her learning process her next great moment is when Littlefinger tells her to marry the heir of the house arryn after little robert dies... But sansa is already kind of ruling it.

Sansa has been learning the game ever since Cersei killed her wolf. Her education was the worst kind. She's like the pawn that survived the chessboard and now has been transformed into a queen.

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I didn't like this episode at all. All the changes and additions are really making it hard for me to enjoy the show.

I thought this exact same way for a long time, but you've just got to let it go. The TV show is not supposed to follow the book. The books are simply good source material and that's it. The show stands on its own. For me, it's actually more enjoyable that way. When the show first started to "go off script," I was a little offended. Now I welcome it. I don't want to know what's going to happen with every little subplot. Give me some surprises.

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I knew what was coming but I didn't know Gregor would smash his head in!
Somehow, it fits Oberyn. He lived his life to its fullest, passionately, he got an intense death and a somehow honorable one. He died for his sister memory and defending Tyrion.

As LF said, some people might die on their chamber pot.

I also wonder where that leaves Sandor and Arya. Are they going to just turn back and split?
If so, then it would be almost impossible for Sansa NOT to know that her sister and the Hound came in the vale, would it?

Such a great season!

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Sansa's entire arc since Ned died has been about learning to lie, adapt, and survive. Why are people suddenly pretending this came out of nowhere?


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I rewatched LF's trial scene and I still can't really understand what Sansa's motivations would be to save LF's ass by lying for him. The only thing I can think of is going back to season 2 (IIRC) when LF tells Sansa “Look around you, we're all liars here and every one of us is better than you.” Maybe the meaning finally clicked for Sansa after her aunt nearly tossed her out of the moon door that she would need to become a better liar and--I don't know.

Yeah, I don't really get why she'd do what she did, In the book it made sense, because LF was the only one to know her secret so she felt that she had no choice but to go along with what he said to save herself. In the show, she is not protecting LF to save herself since she already told the Lords who she really was, her safety already hinges on her, not him so why lie for him?

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Im also wondering whata gonna happen with Sandor and Arya. Are the guards just not gonna tell anyone that Lysa's niece was just there?

They also mentioned House Corbray in the episode. I wonder if we will get Lyn next season. I hope so.

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Yeah, I don't really get why she'd do what she did, In the book it made sense, because LF was the only one to know her secret so she felt that she had no choice but to go along with what he said to save herself. In the show, she is not protecting LF to save herself since she already told the Lords who she really was, her safety already hinges on her, not him so why lie for him?

So she should sell out the guy who singlehandedly saved her from Joffrey and then from Lysa shoving her out of a 2 mile dead drop? Seems like decent motivation to save his skin just once...

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Sansa states that Lysa did what her father commanded her and then she says as many of us have. What does that imply? Poor Ned never commanded her to do anything. Did anyone catch that line. Did she say that for effect?

Haven't seen the ep yet, but Sansa did not do what her father commanded her to do, ie shut up and get ready to leave KL, rather she went and squealed to Cersei... Leading to his death. So is she being ironic???

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By the gods, the duel. The duel! All through the episode I'd been saying to myself "please make it gory, please make it gory" and then when they got at it "fook's sake, you made it gory!". My only complaint is that Oberyn's scream nearly covered the Mountain's speech and, yes, Tyrion's beetles story was longer than the duel itself.


Sansa's scenes confuse me, though. Are they going to speed things up and throw in TWoW material for the next seasons?


Moat Cailin scene was decent but a bit weak. The stronghold is mostly as I pictured it, but couldn't they just have Ramsay explain why is it (so freaking!) important for him, where is it located and who were the Ironborn stationed there? Non-readers might mistake them for Asha's men instead of the remains of Theon's Winterfell force, since the former we just saw run away 3 episoded before and the latter haven't been mentioned since S2.


Edited by Floke

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Haven't seen the ep yet, but Sansa did not do what her father commanded her to do, ie shut up and get ready to leave KL, rather she went and squealed to Cersei... Leading to his death. So is she being ironic???

pretty sure her running to Cersei is not in the series

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