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[Book Spoilers] EP408 Discussion

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What does Littlefinger want.. besides everything? And Sansa

Amusement. He doesn't play sports, the books in Westeros are dry and boring, plus his internet connection is terrible.

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I liked the Behind the Scenes for the duel and impressed at the actors' skill. Did Pascal also do those big aerial jumps?

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What does Littlefinger want.. besides everything? And Sansa

When he said everything, does he mean the throne?

I don't see why anyone would want that damn throne, the rulers of the seperate kingdoms live much better. All the riches, all the women, all the servants, all the authority, way more peace and quite and way less games.

Hell, even Ramsay lives better than everyone in KL He has his castle, his food, servants, women, dungeons...There's no pleasing some people.

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If lying makes you badass, then 99% of the world are badasses.




Sansa up to now has done nothing other than being a Stark.



I don't know about you, but being born is not an achievement in my book.

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If lying makes you badass, then 99% of the world are badasses.

Sansa up to now has done nothing other than being a Stark.

I don't know about you, but being born is not an achievement in my book.

So you think lying and manipulating several parties (including the king of lying) in that way to protect herself and being that convincing wasn't badass? Truly?

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After nobody had mentioned it until page 26, I lost my patience and decided to write it down, no matter if it's been said since:

The beetle scene begins with Tyrion thinking about the absurdity of trials by combats, telling Jaime that this practice is saying so much about gods. What he realises here is what Arya realises before she begins to laugh - if there are gods in the world they live in, they must be cruel or mad. Arya and Tyrion develop two kinds of nihilistic reactions to the world in the first three books: Arya worships death which alone offers some sort of meaning or purpose, Tyrion is drowing himself in wine, unable to cope with his epiphany in any other way. The beetle scene was phenomenal, it was much, much more than a meta joke on GRRM killing characters or a way to foreshadow the Viper's or the Mountain's fate. It gave us a glimpse of Tyrion going dark, just as Sansa and Arya became a few shades darker in the episode. Give D&D some credit for their writing, it's a lot more clever and thought through than many posters here seem to realise.

Great analysis

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So you think lying and manipulating several parties (including the king of lying) in that way to protect herself and being that convincing wasn't badass? Truly?

Who wouldn't believe a young noble crying? It could've been anyone. What if she was a whore?

I respect people that are what they are with their own powers. If they both inherited their power AND expanded on it, I respect them. If all they've got is being someone's son/daughter or husband/wife, then they're nothing in my book. That's why I respect Tywin and Jaime, but not Cersei. Yes, they're Lannisters, but one is brilliant and the other is a great fighter. Cersei is someone's wife and someone's daughter, and because of that she has capable people under her command and through them she forces her will.

And the king of lying is Varys!

Edited by Kingpin

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I just need a quick reminder with next week's episode coming up, but does Pyp die during the attack on the Wall? The general consensus seems to be that Grenn is taking the place of Donal Noye and will bite it in the tunnel, but Pyp has been a little more prominent in the last few NW scenes and has mentioned the lack of faith in his ability to kill a hundred wildlings, but I can't remember if this is foreshadowing his eventual end or not. I know they can't all survive, and there would be a full scale riot at HBO headquarters if Edd doesn't make it, so my theory is Pyp and Grenn will be the ones to go. :-(

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No one complained this week about Aiden Gillen's accent changes so there's that ;)

I think I finally understand the thing about his accent changes after reading the interview here. When he is relaxed and with people who know him on a personal intimate level he speaks with that rough edge. When he is speaking to lords or in some kind of formal situation he polishes up his speech. It all makes sense now.

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I just need a quick reminder with next week's episode coming up, but does Pyp die during the attack on the Wall? The general consensus seems to be that Grenn is taking the place of Donal Noye and will bite it in the tunnel, but Pyp has been a little more prominent in the last few NW scenes and has mentioned the lack of faith in his ability to kill a hundred wildlings, but I can't remember if this is foreshadowing his eventual end or not. I know they can't all survive, and there would be a full scale riot at HBO headquarters if Edd doesn't make it, so my theory is Pyp and Grenn will be the ones to go. :-(

The French promo for the episode seem to confirm it.

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Sometimes George does trump the show runners, some other times too.

In the novel Mole's Town IS warned , logical, and they escape to CB.

We don't know from the show if the whole town was wiped out.*

(They did not go into the tunnel thing.)

Anyway most survive in the book and return to Mole's Town.

When Jon sent someone to ask their help, for the big attack on the Wall.... turned out the place had been deserted.

Which makes sense.

Sometimes logic fails the show's flow chart that scops out the drama from the novels.

*I repeat again, if a Mole's town whore can sniff out a wildling...

Would one not think that a Wildling , Ygritte could not sniff out another wildling , Gilly?

...and I think spare her?

Maybe not but makes sense.

Edited by boojam

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Sometimes George does trump the show runners, some other times too.

In the novel Mole's Town IS warned , logical, and they escape to CB.

We don't know from the show if the whole town was wiped out.*

(They did not go into the tunnel thing.)

Anyway most survive in the book and return to Mole's Town.

When Jon sent someone to ask their help, for the big attack on the Wall.... turned out the place had been deserted.

Which makes sense.

Sometimes logic fails the show's flow chart that scops out the drama from the novels.

*I repeat again, if a Mole's town whore can sniff out a wildling...

Would one not think that a Wildling , Ygritte could not sniff out another wildling , Gilly?

...and I think spare her?

Maybe not but makes sense.

Sometimes? Ha.

I would say it's the reverse. "Sometimes" GRRM has some logic fails or unrealistic levels of plot armour, etc. The show, when they are doing their own plotting almost always has logic fails. From this season only we have Asha's plan, Locke's plan, Sam's plan for Gilly, and Arya and the Mountain at the Vale gate, none of which make any sense whatsover. Only the rarest case do they make an improvement, such as when Jamie goes to Tywin to plead for Tyrion and he uses the situation to get what he wants, Jamie out of the KG.

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Sometimes? Ha.

I would say it's the reverse. "Sometimes" GRRM has some logic fails or unrealistic levels of plot armour, etc. The show, when they are doing their own plotting almost always has logic fails. From this season only we have Asha's plan, Locke's plan, Sam's plan for Gilly, and Arya and the Mountain at the Vale gate, none of which make any sense whatsover. Only the rarest case do they make an improvement, such as when Jamie goes to Tywin to plead for Tyrion and he uses the situation to get what he wants, Jamie out of the KG.

Good points, but I have to laugh at the fact that their rewrite of the Jaime and Tywin and Tyrion deal only lasted for what? one half of the episode, if that? LOL

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Good points, but I have to laugh at the fact that their rewrite of the Jaime and Tywin and Tyrion deal only lasted for what? one half of the episode, if that? LOL

Yeah, but you have to admit, Tywin "my legacy, my legacy" Lannister, seeming to have never had any plan at all for 15 years of how he was going to get his heir out of the KG, hating his other son but never remarrying....and disapproving of Selmy's ouster...is a bit of a logic flaw in the books, same with a single conversation and then, 'okay, fuck you, you're disowned bitch, go guard someone'..and he's back to square one...no one to inherit the Rock.

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Sometimes? Ha.

I would say it's the reverse. "Sometimes" GRRM has some logic fails or unrealistic levels of plot armour, etc. The show, when they are doing their own plotting almost always has logic fails. From this season only we have Asha's plan, Locke's plan, Sam's plan for Gilly, and Arya and the Mountain at the Vale gate, none of which make any sense whatsover. Only the rarest case do they make an improvement, such as when Jamie goes to Tywin to plead for Tyrion and he uses the situation to get what he wants, Jamie out of the KG.

Yeah first Sam was a 'babe in the woods' then he wises up, then Jon must have told him his idea was bad.

Yeah but the Asah/Yara, Moles-Town, ... such like that are standard whirly gigs to keep the causal viewer 'place-and-character' gouged.

I don't know about D&D but I can see the 'studio' HBO in this case, have a template for that kind of thing, less the Bank of America Collar people forget what's what!

Edited by boojam

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I received a link from someone saying that it'll explain the beetles dialogue. Dear Lord.

Edited by James Kidd

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