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[Book Spoilers] EP408 Discussion

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Could it be the relationship between Missandei and and Grey Worm is setting up a betrayal "to love" that was prophesied in the House of the Undying? Otherwise I don't know why they're spending time on this...

Total waste of screen time. I guess they needed to get Nathalie Emmanuel naked.

Seriously, end this Grey Worm/Missandi story line. So annoying imo.

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How exactly? In the books Arya was killing in cold blood as early as Harrenhall. What has show Arya done since then to make her character seem much darker?

You can clearly see how dark a road she is going down. Look at how she killed the guy in the pub with Needle, and the other guy who said what he was going to do to her with her own sword (Rorge). She didn't bat an eyelash. Also what she did to those idiots who were laughing about her brother's murder and mutilation around the fire.

I honestly love to see her go down this dark path. Westeros is long overdue for a character like her: some kind of dark avenger, which she is slowly becoming through ADWD. Like I said before, she is basically becoming Jaqen H'Ghar in female form. And to me, that's pretty damn cool. I'm rooting for her!

Edited by TheCrimsonKing

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I read this on another board about the Orson story:

I laughed for about five minutes after this episode aired. Don't misunderstand me. It's tragic what happened tonight. The show introduced a compelling character and spent the majority of the season fleshing him out beautifully, giving him purpose and deftly balancing his humor with pathos. He heroically fights for Tyrion in a visceral battle with The Mountain, filled with kinetic bravado, and just when you think he'll achieve catharsis, he's thwarted. He gets his confession as his eyes are gouged out and he's cranially decimated. Cersei smiles, Tywin sentences his son to death, and Tyrion stares dumbfounded.

Why?

Refer to the penultimate scene between Tyrion and Jamie. They talk of their simple cousin who spent his days smashing beetles. Tyrion is fascinated by his moronic actions while family legacies and Targaryen dragons fade into the background. All that's left is the sound of the killings. "And I still couldn't figure out why he was doing it, and I had to know because it was horrible that all these beetles should be dying for no reason." Orson gave no answer and he kept on killing until he was kicked in the chest by a mule and died.

This is Coen Brothers level absurdity, and at the end of this episode not only did Oberyn's death make sense, but everything else did as well. Suddenly everything from the Red Wedding to Ned Stark's death was put sharply into perspective. George R. R. Martin is the cousin killing beetles and the only thing left to do is laugh.

Beautifully put. I loved how Pascal and the writers brought Oberyn to the screen . Equally the Tyrion/Jaimie scene was masterful. I thought the change of pace, the existential absurdity of the beetles monologue, the chemistry between two brothers remembering shared moments of their childhood together and , as you point out, the structural emphasis it gives to the pointlessness of the 'Game' was excellent. Until you linked to the Arya laughing gif I hadn't consciously realized that this too was my overall reaction to Oberyn's heroic fail, Tyrion's predicament and ,of course, Arya's.

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Okay, seriously, to all the reviewers still saying that "oh Dany made the right call on exiling Jorah".



“Emotionally for me it was so intricate,” Clarke says. “Jorah’s been with me since day one, season one. The scene itself is unpleasant because I — Emilia — know that what Dany is doing is wrong, And it was the first time I’ve ever felt that.”




http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/01/emilia-clarke-dany-ser-jorah/



Its a mistake, its all part of her downwards spiral into ADWD territory, which, of course, she will bounce back from. But its good to have your heroes actually put on the back foot and make mistakes. A lot of reviews I've seen act like Dany can do no wrong and every decision she takes is meant to be the right choice as she is a great ruler. No, that is not what HBO are doing.



I honestly think that it is going to take caging the dragons for them to really start criticizing her and get what HBO has been trying to hammer into people the whole season.


Edited by Tyrion1991

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Does anyone else think they are leaving out the Eyrie in the Intro because it doesn't look anything like


it did in Season 1? And is so completely pussy to what it is supposed to be in the book? Also, enough


with the guys standing in a line on either side of the ravine! Is this supposed to be crack security? What


are they going to do, pee on you? And why does the Eyrie did this crack security since apparently any


two people can just wander up to the Bloody Gate unmolested by the Mountain tribes. I know Shagga


(remember Shagga?) stayed in the Kingswood after the Blackwater but Timmett and the others came


back (with their good steel) and were making life difficult for the Vale. But since we don't seem to have


mountains anymore the mountain tribes didn't recognize their homeland and went elsewhere, Or they


couldn't find it on the map.


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Does anyone else think they are leaving out the Eyrie in the Intro because it doesn't look anything like it did in Season 1?

No. It looks pretty much the same, just a different angle. And even if it did, I doubt that its not being in the opening has anything to do with it.

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Making my first comment here on the forums. Long-time lurker, first-time poster.



I felt the Red Viper/Mountain duel, in the end, delivered the thrill of the fight and suspense of Oberyn nearly winning and then losing in such horrific fasion. I was watching with my father and he jumped up when the Mountain went down for the count, so in that way I feel it lived up to the books in making you believe that the Mountain is finally going to meet justice. Then, just like that, the energy left the room as Gregor pulled Oberyn in and finished him off. Tyrion was sentenced to death, and I felt it got the emotions it needed to get.



That being said, I feel the fight suffered from the new Mountain's lack of acting ability and the episode suffered from a lack of build-up for a fight that the episode itself was named after. As to the new Mountain, sure he was massive, but I think we can all agree that the guy they had from Season 1 would have made this scene a fight worthy of the hype. A lot of the dialogue and motions just felt clumsy and absent of that blind-rage we saw from the Mountain in Season 1. In a later interview where Conan Stevens spoke on Clegane, he seemed to have as good a grasp as you could get on such a violent, brutish character. A shame he couldn't come back for Season 4, but alas, we were left with what we witnessed Sunday.



I think Pascal carried the fight well enough to make it a memorable fight-scene all-in-all though. He really nailed it this season, capturing the essence of our beloved Red Viper and delivering that swaggering bravado to Game of Thrones fans each and every week. He shall be missed.


Edited by Gladiator of Dorne

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No kidding. Arya at the end of ASoS was totally broken and would never have broken out into laughter. It is ridiculous to postulate that the Arya of GoT is darker than the books. She left The Hound to the wolves rather than give him the gift of mercy. She was totally alone whereas in GoT she has latched onto The Hound and is developing a relationship. How many times does she think about having a hole where her heart should be? She has nothing but her list, a prayer for the power to give death to those she hates.

How can hysterical laughter be construed as darker than that?

Because it's a symptom of that? The hint's in the word hysterical, it implies brokenness in itself

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Cat, Tyrion, Bronn & Co, came up to the Bloody Gate. Littlefinger & Sansa came up to the Bloody Gate. Arya and the Hound came up to


the Bloody Gate. So, how can it be from a different angle? Does it move like Greywater Watch? Somewhere in all the discussion of this


episode I just saw Cat's arrival there along side that of Sansa's. I'm sorry, but to me it looks quite different. And we still have the problem


of people now being able to hike through the Vale untroubled by mountain tribes whereas Cat lost over half her group.



Oh, and please stop trying to explain Sansa's outfit as an Arryn thing. The Arryn sigil is a white falcon on a sky blue background. There


are no falcons that color. They can only be crow or raven feathers. And why would Sansa be decked out as an Arryn anyway? She's


supposed to be some connection of Littlefinger's. And mockingbirds (my state bird) are grey with white markings. Yes, this is fantasy


Westeros, not Texas, but as far as I remember only crows and ravens are black. Cersei and Tyrion use a common proverb, something like


the crow calling the raven black, in one of their arguments. That outfit is not mourning, Arryn or Mockingbird. It's OTT.


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Cat, Tyrion, Bronn & Co, came up to the Bloody Gate. Littlefinger & Sansa came up to the Bloody Gate. Arya and the Hound came up to

the Bloody Gate. So, how can it be from a different angle? Does it move like Greywater Watch? Somewhere in all the discussion of this

episode I just saw Cat's arrival there along side that of Sansa's. I'm sorry, but to me it looks quite different. And we still have the problem

of people now being able to hike through the Vale untroubled by mountain tribes whereas Cat lost over half her group.

Oh, and please stop trying to explain Sansa's outfit as an Arryn thing. The Arryn sigil is a white falcon on a sky blue background. There

are no falcons that color. They can only be crow or raven feathers. And why would Sansa be decked out as an Arryn anyway? She's

supposed to be some connection of Littlefinger's. And mockingbirds (my state bird) are grey with white markings. Yes, this is fantasy

Westeros, not Texas, but as far as I remember only crows and ravens are black. Cersei and Tyrion use a common proverb, something like

the crow calling the raven black, in one of their arguments. That outfit is not mourning, Arryn or Mockingbird. It's OTT.

OMG, Bloodraven is Warging Sansa

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Yeah, but you have to admit, Tywin "my legacy, my legacy" Lannister, seeming to have never had any plan at all for 15 years of how he was going to get his heir out of the KG, hating his other son but never remarrying....and disapproving of Selmy's ouster...is a bit of a logic flaw in the books, same with a single conversation and then, 'okay, fuck you, you're disowned bitch, go guard someone'..and he's back to square one...no one to inherit the Rock.

Yeah but n the book I don't get the feeling that Tywin was that averse to passing of the rock to his siblings, he was more about the Lannister clan than just his own progeny.

In the show they have to make it about his children because the rest of the clan doesn't really exist.

Edited by The Scabbard Of the Morning

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Cat, Tyrion, Bronn & Co, came up to the Bloody Gate.

No, they didn't. They just rode up to the Eyrie. The Gate wasn't brought up then.

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Since when do GoT kinda break the 4th wall? Orson being GRRM..come on! "Orson was not mindless he had his reason" like aerys wanting to burn everyone or the tickler that tortures harrenhall for their gold when he knows there is none.Thats just something Tyrion cannot understand as it is not a rational thinking.They can, they do , and they take pleasure doing it(The hound: nothing as sweet as killing a man) Its not talking about tywin either (he did stop the torturing for nothing in harrenhall). Tyrion will never understand this but:

That speach will get his purpose with Jaime - wont he take riverun without a drop of blood and being all " okay war as made enough victim" ?

Arya is clearly laughing at the hounds for never being able to get is ramsom and get rid of her, shes laughing at his miseries.

As for Sansa I remember Cercei telling her that a women has different weapons than men: tears and her cunt. I think shes playing the second one on baelish but for what purpose?..

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