Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP408 Discussion

Recommended Posts

So, now that people know Arya is still alive, what happens.



Does the Hound leave the Vale now? Does he bring Arya with him?


Edited by Cellio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

heres a suggestion to all the people who didn't like the episode...



pop open a bottle of Ommegang Fire and Blood, chug it, then re-watch it...thats what i did and i loved it....



there were definitely parts i didnt find useful...but if i think about the ep in general, it was amazing...truthfully, i liked it much more than Mockingbird!


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I usually don't post, but I really enjoy the discussions here and check in to read the comments and theories often. Last night's episode bothered me so much that I had to look up my log in info. just so I could vent.


So very disappointed - hated the beetle crushing part so much, did I miss something?? what was the point?? shouldn't Tyrion have some empathy for a special needs child who is his cousin?


Hated the Grey Worm deviation too, but I think the point was to get another scene with breasts in (hate the fact that HBO feels this necessary)


I feel like the book readers were spoiled by speeding up the Sansa story (I've been reading since the late '90's)


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meh. That's all I got. Meh. With all the hype surrounding the Mountain and Viper I turned off the tv feeling pretty disappointed. I get that its tv, with a limited shooting time, but how is it possible that a deleted fight scene between Orlando Bloom and Martin Cskokas in Kingdom of Heaven was both more emotionally resonant and dramatic than that.

I guess it had all the trademark of a mediocre GOT fight sequence. Poorly staged. Wild sword swings, Camera parked too far from the action. Poor use of dramatic beats to heighten the action. And don't forget the over the top gore ending.

Sigh...

In other news... Sansa Stark is maleficent and the beetle monologue may be single worst bit of writing in the history of HBO.

On the beetle monologue: tell that to Florina Laufeyson. this individual thinks that it's writing genius and anyone who disagrees is an unintelligent viewer. Edited by teej6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me the issue is less that they're deviating from the books, and more that I don't believe the writers are anywhere near competent enough to do ASOIAF justice with their fanfiction. Some of it turned out quite well, like Tywin encountering Arya, but most of it has been substandard garbage that's barely fit for a bad action movie or a daytime soap opera. I seriously worry for future seasons because it sounds like the fanfiction will only increase.

This

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meh. That's all I got. Meh. With all the hype surrounding the Mountain and Viper I turned off the tv feeling pretty disappointed.

...

I guess it had all the trademark of a mediocre GOT fight sequence. ... And don't forget the over the top gore ending.

Sigh...

In other news... Sansa Stark is maleficent and the beetle monologue may be single worst bit of writing in the history of HBO.

Perhaps the story was to show Orton Lannister is distilled to the essence of Lannister ness. All that time wasted that could have been spent on the fight. Or reading the books for ideas.

The fight ending was at least straight from the book in a surprise turn.

We are again Alex Graves victims.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Howland Reed was mentioned in the show. Im sure they will add the crannogmen in some fashion. Probably mentioning them when Asha arrives there or something. I dont expect them to go to Crannog Country until next season.

Well..they are. Sorry. But they are. And complaining about it is making them look stupider.

Again, most people get the point of the beetle story but that still doesn't change the fact that it was a tad too long and tedious to sit through Edited by teej6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That Roose- Ramsay scene made me scream at Roose to watch his back! Sth I should have thought of in the books. Roose assumes he has control over Ramsay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I usually don't post, but I really enjoy the discussions here and check in to read the comments and theories often. Last night's episode bothered me so much that I had to look up my log in info. just so I could vent.

So very disappointed - hated the beetle crushing part so much, did I miss something?? what was the point?? shouldn't Tyrion have some empathy for a special needs child who is his cousin?

Hated the Grey Worm deviation too, but I think the point was to get another scene with breasts in (hate the fact that HBO feels this necessary)

I feel like the book readers were spoiled by speeding up the Sansa story (I've been reading since the late '90's)

Beetle speech was a metaphor for the Gods undiscriminately killing people because they can. That there is no order to the killing, there is just killing. Also that we'll never understand the intentions or order the Gods see fit for a person to die.

I quite enjoyed the beetle monologue. It was just too long, especially when most people would've preferred more tyrion/oberyn time or more fighting time. I don't think Tyrion hated his cousin, as he said, making fun of him made him feel normal it was just an attempt to inject humour into the scene.

I actually really like the grey worm/ missandei romance that is developing. but again they spent too much time on it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, most people get the point of the beetle story but that still doesn't change the fact that it was a tad too long and tedious to sit through

Quite the understatement. It felt like it went on for half an hour.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So he wasn't any good? He thoroughly whipped one of the best warriors in the Seven Kingdoms. Oberyn died because he got too close to the strongest known man in the Seven Kingdoms as he lay dying due to wounds inflicted by Oberyn. So I really don't understand how Oberyn was not as good as he thought? Did you watch/read the same fight? The Mountain was pinned to the ground with Oberyn's spear through his chest.

First of all, I never said Oberyn wasn't any good; I said he was overrated as a fighter and did not do that much to actually earn his reputation. Tyrion asks Jaime and Jaime says what we have all said- we never saw the man fight.

Second, he did not "thoroughly whip" one of the best warriors in Westeroes; the Mountain beat him. ITs like the story of two boxers, where Boxer A puts on a dazzling performance for 11.5 rounds, just beating up Boxer B, just doing everything perfectly, then with 1 min left in the fight, Boxer B squares up and hits Boxer A with a 1-2 combo that flattens Boxer A, KO'ing him. So... who won the fight? Yeah, Boxer A could say, "Look, I dominated the fight; I won every round" to which the appropriate and correct response is, "No- you won 11 rounds; the fight goes 12 you have to stay upright for all 12. You lost the fight."

Oberyn lost. I know the fan-boys want to resurrect him by way of claiming that he won the fight or that the Mountain will die of his wounds in a few days... weeks... whatever. But the cold, hard brutal truth is that Oberyn Martell lost. He failed to do what he set out to do which was put Elia's death on the LANNISTERS. He was also supposed to kill the Mountain, but did not. He reached too far, - as the book puts it, he dropped the ball because Viper's don't have hands. HE achieved zero of his goals. (If you think that the Mountain's "confession?" is meaningful, you are mistaken- we knew already that Elia of Dorne did not die of natural causes; much like Aerys, somebody had to kill her).

Oh, and to answer your other,. cliche questions- yes we watched the exact same fight, on the exact same medium, with the same actors, at the same frame-rate in the same presentation brought to you by the same network over the same cable connections.

Yes, the Mountain was on the ground, the spear in his chest, etc etc etc ... and Oberyn still lost... to a man pinned to the ground with a spear in his chest.

Wow... when you say it like that it makes Oberyn sound even more incompetent. Fuck... how do you lose to a man who is on his back, bleeding with a spear in his body? Well... Oberyn found a way.

He lost because he tried to elicit a confession implicating Tywin instead of just finishing off the Mountain or staying another foot away during his interrogation.

I fixed that for you.

Look, let me put all my snarkiness aside. I never liked Oberyn (but you knew that already). He was a fine character and a very good fighter. I never said otherwise. But his arrogance got the best of him. Instead of being satisfied with what he had, he overreached and it cost him his life. Granted, in the book, he was actually in the act of trying to kill the Mountain when the Mountain killed him and here he was extending the confession, but in both instances the end is clear- the fight was not over.

IN a way, the fight ended very true to Oberyn, who was always a bit too cock-sure of himself; a bit arrogant. And it cost him.

Simple as that.

Edited by Rockroi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, now that people know Arya is still alive, what happens.

Does the Hound leave the Vale now? Does he bring Arya with him?

i didn't understand this scene tbh, why Arya didn't ask for the Arryn protection?? Robert is her cousin after all and it's the only place where she can hide. the Hound would get paid and both of them would have met Sansa. and why in the hell the Knight did not take them into custody? isn't like they are enemy of the crown... weird

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately, the writers forgot this awesome comment from Tyrion. :(

I've waited for it the whole fight!

We got

Oberyn: "Size doesn't matter, when you're flat on your back"

Tyrion "Thank the gods."

double entendre?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I usually don't post, but I really enjoy the discussions here and check in to read the comments and theories often. Last night's episode bothered me so much that I had to look up my log in info. just so I could vent.

So very disappointed - hated the beetle crushing part so much, did I miss something?? what was the point?? shouldn't Tyrion have some empathy for a special needs child who is his cousin?

Hated the Grey Worm deviation too, but I think the point was to get another scene with breasts in (hate the fact that HBO feels this necessary)

I feel like the book readers were spoiled by speeding up the Sansa story (I've been reading since the late '90's)

I noticed someone already replying to you, it was a good answer...

when i watched the episode, i didnt get that part, what i got was the show setting the stage for Tyrion's obsessive behavior "where do whores go?"....nothing else in the show so far would have explained as nicely about why he keeps repeating that...ofcourse he loved Tysha and ofcourse he sort of had a breakdown after discovering the truth and it makes absolute sense that he would go searching for her...but the way he keeps repeating it in the books, almost like a mantra...

this scene to me shows how he's always had an obsessive personality, where he feels he is smarter than most and if he doesn't know the answer to something it drives him crazy and he keeps obsessing until he gets the answer...

also the fact that he really had no idea how Oberyn would do in the fight, it was possibly his last conversation...and he chose to bring up this of all topics, asking Jaime at the very end for an answer to that question, before possibly going off to his depth...see to me that just shows that even something so insignificant as beetle crushing, its still important for him to know the answer before he dies....

so when it comes to "where do whores go", with all the added emotions, he's not going to rest till he knows...

that was just my take on the importance of that scene...

:cheers:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well..they are. Sorry. But they are. And complaining about it is making them look stupider.

Lol, take it easy why don't you.

I wasn't THAT impressed by the beetle monologue. I understand why they did it, but don't really buy it. Subtext and all, it didn't fit where it was placed and I can't see how it is be important either. Plus... it wasn't that well written either. I think Peter Dinklage more or less saved it with his performance.

I think they could have cut it and placed another scene there instead. Like maybe the fight between The Hound and the knights of the Gate. It would make much more sense to place it there instead of early in episode 10.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love the double meanings of some episode titles. "The Mountain and the Viper" is facially a reference to Oberyn and Gregor Clegane. But a second mountain looms large in this episode, the Eyrie. The only question is, who is the viper, Sansa or Little Finger?



I thought this was one of the elite episodes, I even liked the bit with the beetles.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But his arrogance got the best of him. Instead of being satisfied with what he had, he overreached and it cost him his life.

I disagree with that.

Oberyn is kind of arrogant, self-confident for sure, but the reason why he dragged the fight on is because he wanted a confession out of Gregor, he wanted to confront Tywin about the order he (most likely) gave Gregor.

He got careless, I would give you that, but not arrogent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The duel was EPIC...Head-smush!!!


I'll miss Oberyn,he was a true badass :frown5:



The whole Eyrie thing,meh I don't like it when they change things but I don't really care :dunno:


I suppose since Sansa dyed her hair they will keep calling her Alayne and only 5 people will know she's Sansa



Alfie Allen was great once again,he's an amazing Reek



Arya was like "Hahahahahahahaha my whole fucking family is dead that's hilarious" :lol:


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...