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[Book Spoilers] EP408 Discussion

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I do deride him for being a comic book character that is beneath GRRM. As I do Vargo Hoat. You can't hit it out of the park all the time.

I really do feel for Comic Book fans all around the world who happen to like ASOIAF as well. If they want to get themselves into forums like this, they have to endure this fandom using Comic Book tropes and characterization as a measuring stick of awful writing.

My goodness!

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Why would Tyrion comtemplate why people seem to hate him (aka the beetle scene)?

Shae hates him because he dumped her for a younger women.

Blount hates him because he threatened him.

Pycelle hates him because he had him thrown in jail.

Cersei and Joff hate him because Tyrion threatened Joff.

Tywin hates him for his whoring.

Justified or not Tyrion has done things that he knows has angered people.

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3) Ideally, an allegory or metaphor like this should work to shed light on characterization. As it were, the story went on and on and on and we never learned anything about Jaime or Tyrion. On the contrary, the fact that Jaime murdered his cousin was brushed away and the story, as I said before, contradicted Tyrion's previous characterization in terms of feeling empathy with people like Orson.

Jaime murdered his cousin? Why don't I recall this?

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I thought the fight was really good. I liked the location in the book, but thought the arena worked well.

One thing that I thought they missed from the book, which could have been a good inclusion, was the way the crowd became more interested in the confession than the fight.

The Scanners moment was just great. I had a feeling they were going to do something like that.

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The scene was overlong, tedious, slightly offensive, clumsy, and overall, innecessary.

The imagery and metaphor was basic and pedestrian to say the least. It's meaning (if we would call it so) was painfully obvious and predictable. I'm honestly baffled at all these interpretations. It was just nihilism at its most basic: things happen for no reason, just because. Orson crushed the beetles because he could, just like the mule kicked him because it could.

Done, it was paper-thin dialogue. It was all flash and no substance. And worse of all: it was repetitive. We've seen time and time again how violence and death happens just because on this show. That's Ramsay's "If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention", there's even Tyrion's "if you're looking for justice, you've come to the wrong place". Etc, etc, but of course, D&D had to belabor the point because the audience is stupid

Well, at least I hope the stupid story was about the pointlessness of it all. If it really was a metaphor of Gregor and Oberyn then I just feel sorry for these writers

:agree: It's no secret I agree with this... As for people who don't "agree" that it was offensive, hi, it offended me.

Belwas killing Mereens champion then taking a shit still would have been awesome :P

Better than bland ass tv daario anyway

:agree: :agree: :agree: And this. All day this.

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Thought Jorah might try to take Barristan out there for a sec

Aha! I thought this too... I even said to myself "I would've got the drop on him and threw him over the wall" Nobody would've seen or heard from him for days haha shoot messing up my good thing that I've got going on here

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Beetle scene was daft and needless. I think the writers threw it in so that media studies students will waste hours analysing it.

At first, the meaning seems obvious: it is questioning the point of all this. Then again, perhaps the beetles are metaphors for humans and Orson is a god destroying the beetles/humans for no reason – symbolising the way in which characters die in Game of Thrones. And Tyrion represents mankind, and the way in which it constantly looks for meaning in life, asking questions of the gods.

Then again, what's the mule that killed Orson all about? Does the mule symbolise death? Also, there was a mule in the nativity story. Hmmm. There was also a birth at the nativity. Does the mule really symbolise life? Wow, man, deep.

Maybe Orson is meant to represent aliens who will later crush mankind? Think about it: who directed The War of the Worlds, which was about an alien invasion? Holy shit- Orson Welles.

Or maybe Orson represents Yoko Ono and the way she destroyed The Beetles?

Now I'm thinking, maybe it means you're the evil man, and I'm the righteous man, and Mr. 9 millimetre here, he's the shepherd protecting my righteous ass

And on it goes on and on in circles.

Edited by Tony Inchpractice
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2) A metaphor or allegory of this kind should come naturally.

But it is natural : Tyrion is likely to be soon beheaded, why wouldn't he ponder about mortality and the sense of life ? Tyrion could be angry now, wishing to see all his accusers dead. But no, he puts things into perspective and blame it on absurdity. And he's honest with Jaime : show!Jaime needs this scene to justify his telling the truth about Tysha in the season finale, that will trigger Tyrion's change of mind. Imagine how the Unsullied will react, with Tyrion going in 2 episodes from remembering how he tried to prevent Orson from crashing beetles to killing in cold-blood Shae and Tywin !

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Well, I just joined, but I can't get the bloody profile picture thingy to accept my pic no matter how I alter it.... but, oh well.....

Anyway, onto the situation at hand:

- Arya's derisive laughter. To me, it looked like she was laughing at the situation, but more-so at the Hound. Everywhere he has tried to dump her off, there has been some setback of some sort. Also, about Arya, one thing I noticed is how much like Jaquen she is going to be in the future, When the Red Woman (Melisandre) faced her a while back, the witch actually looked frightened. Perhaps that was a foreshadowing? Perhaps one of those sets of eyes that Arya closes will be Melisandre's herself. Perhaps she saw her own future?

- Tyrion's long story about the beetles seemed to set up the brutality of the Mountain. That's how I read into it.

- Lena, Lena, Lena...... I saw her on Craig Ferguson's talk show. She is an absolute clown! I mean that in a good way. Every other actor I have seen mention her only have good things to say about her. What certainly shows the caliber of her acting ability is how many times I have wanted to throw her out of a high window in King's Landing, especially this past episode. That smug smirk she leveled at Tyrion got my blood boiling so much that I had to sit down and listen to some quiet music for a little while after the episode ended. Hats off to Lena! She finally learned how to drink the glasses of wine she pours! "Drinky, no drinky!!"

About Cersei though, I think she got off light for all the death, torture, pain, and destruction she has caused. Being paraded naked through the streets of King;s Landing?? Really?? She wanted Tyrion's head off!!

I have read the book series twice and am going through ADWD for the third time. I can't wait to see Tyrion's boat trip put on film. And I honestly hope they work Penny in. Her character is a very important turning point for Tyrion. She's too pivotal to leave out. But, then, I also thought the same thing about Osmund Kettleback. So, is Tyrion only going to spill the beans about Lancel? We shall see in a couple weeks, I guess!

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