How would you rate episode 408?

[Tywin's bastard]

A bit up and down but the main thing that lingers with me is Oberyn. Pedro Pascal has been amazing in this role and has really brought life to the character in that way that a tv show (or a movie) can do better than a book - if the actor is up to the task. It's been a bit different but that's fine by me as a good book will always tell a longer story better so I'm happy with getting to experience this story in a different way, so it's not just an inferior version. The death of Oberyn touched me more than I thought it would and that's all due to the presence that Pascal has brought during this season. Well done.

As for the mentioned thing about he signaling his death by saying that he's not going to die, that's no different than Tyrion and Jaime doing the standard build up of the seemingly insurmountable threat so the victory will be "surprising" and even sweeter. So I don't buy that the show told the ending in advance.

[The onion wight]

Did anyone get what the beetle conversation was about? It was like, well the simple kid was crushing insects and shit, Tyrion REALLY wanted to know why he was crushing insects and shit and then it was decided no one knew why he was crushing insects and shit. Deep...

[Ser Dank the Jedi]

For all the Beetle haters...

Would you rather have 10 minutes of Tyrion eating bacon and sausage and applecakes, and a double helping of fried eggs cooked up with onions and fiery Dornish peppers?

:P :P :P

[Ran]

That was 4 minutes of conversation. Oberon and he could have had a very illuminating conversation in the same span of time, as well. Breakfast optional.

[P. frontalis chiripepe]

Did anyone get what the beetle conversation was about? It was like, well the simple kid was crushing insects and shit, Tyrion REALLY wanted to know why he was crushing insects and shit and then it was decided no one knew why he was crushing insects and shit. Deep...

It was a metaphor for all the senseless acts of mass atrocity that humans commit. Wars and murder. What is it all for, in the end?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

That was 4 minutes of conversation. Oberon and he could have had a very illuminating conversation in the same span of time, as well. Breakfast optional.

Or with Elaria. I'm sure that many people still feel Elaria is only some hot woman he was banging, not the mother of his four daughters and beloved companion.

[Cas Stark]

What I wanted was Red Viper and Ellaria together alone for a couple of aminutes...Pedro Pascal has killed it as this character and I would have rather seen him given more screen time on his last episode than the hugely rambling beetle deal, or the nice and sweet but not important Grey Worm and Missandrei seg.

[Samwell TarIy]

10/10, The whole duel was amazing and everything leading up to it was awesome, the beetle scene should him been shortened though.

[Zajebisty]

Wow...I can't really believe what I just witnessed (on screen and on here)

I don't want to really offend anyone but Im absolutely shocked the number of people who gave this episode 9s and 10s. I mean if you gave this episode a 10 then I guess if someone (excuse the crudeness) took a dump on the screen you would give this a 10 as well.

I'm a big fan of this show and this season has been VERY surprising to me in it's quality (in a good way after the lackluster last season and season 2). Its been very good and certainly there have been a few episodes which I would rate as 8 or 9 (the only 10s from me would be in Season 1 and EP9 from Season 2). This episode had so many cringe worthy scenes it was unreal. I mean it started off with the belching whore and just went downhill from there. Its like 2 am here so I'll try to keep this brief but I'm just so disappointed having waited two weeks and getting this pile of crap.

Grey Worm love story was just so bloody awful. I was getting flashbacks of Jon and Ygrette, it was that bad. The directing was as if the person had no clue. What was up with those extreme close ups of Jorah's face in the throne room scene? Is Emilia Clarke made of wood? How can one call that acting? So so so bad. And those cuts from Dany to Jorah and back and forth when he is kneeling...I am just lost for words how butchered that scene was.

Now to show I am not biased some things were good. The Boltons were quite good as was the Moat Cailin scene. Naked Missendei was absolutely fantastic...the woman is a goddess. But of course was spoiled with the cuts back to Grey Worm's expressionless face. The duel was fairly good but the guy playing the Mountain was terrible. Season 1 Mountain was by far the best of the bunch...kinda funny they used 3 separate actors.

This episode should be called Close Ups and Cringe Worthy Scenes (I challenge someone to count the number of close ups on faces). I give this an extremely disappointed 2...and from the previews for next week it looks like its more of the same unfortunately.

[Cas Stark]

Wow...I can't really believe what I just witnessed (on screen and on here)

I don't want to really offend anyone but Im absolutely shocked the number of people who gave this episode 9s and 10s. I mean if you gave this episode a 10 then I guess if someone (excuse the crudeness) took a dump on the screen you would give this a 10 as well.

I'm a big fan of this show and this season has been VERY surprising to me in it's quality (in a good way after the lackluster last season and season 2). Its been very good and certainly there have been a few episodes which I would rate as 8 or 9 (the only 10s from me would be in Season 1 and EP9 from Season 2). This episode had so many cringe worthy scenes it was unreal. I mean it started off with the belching whore and just went downhill from there. Its like 2 am here so I'll try to keep this brief but I'm just so disappointed having waited two weeks and getting this pile of crap.

Grey Worm love story was just so bloody awful. I was getting flashbacks of Jon and Ygrette, it was that bad. The directing was as if the person had no clue. What was up with those extreme close ups of Jorah's face in the throne room scene? Is Emilia Clarke made of wood? How can one call that acting? So so so bad. And those cuts from Dany to Jorah and back and forth when he is kneeling...I am just lost for words how butchered that scene was.

Now to show I am not biased some things were good. The Boltons were quite good as was the Moat Cailin scene. Naked Missendei was absolutely fantastic...the woman is a goddess. But of course was spoiled with the cuts back to Grey Worm's expressionless face. The duel was fairly good but the guy playing the Mountain was terrible. Season 1 Mountain was by far the best of the bunch...kinda funny they used 3 separate actors.

This episode should be called Close Ups and Cringe Worthy Scenes (I challenge someone to count the number of close ups on faces). I give this an extremely disappointed 2...and from the previews for next week it looks like its more of the same unfortunately.

I also think this season is a BIG improvement over seasons 2 and 3.

I thought this episode was okay, it wasntr fantastic, like Episode 1 was, it was kind of jumbled, had a few too many things going on and I thought the Viper was short changed. But, it wasn't terrible. I gave an 8, but then the worst rating I think I have given is a 5.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Cas Stark

[The onion wight]

10/10, The whole duel was amazing and everything leading up to it was awesome, the beetle scene should him been shortened though.

Sorry can't let that slide. The duel was terrible. The Red Viper was pulling Darth Maul moves mixed with a touch of Bruce Lee. The mountain just stood there watching him prance around with his guard down. More prancing about and then he stabs him. Apart from the dialogue the scene was completely at odds with the books, not that this is necessarily a bad thing but it just came over as over theatrical and staged.

[Lord Jibblejab]

I gave it a 7 or 8.

My opinion of it fluctuated multiple times throughout watching it, but overall, dat's some good TV rite thar.

I thought the duel itself was just as powerful as it was in the books, honestly. My only qualm was it could have gone on longer, but it DID have that nice "back-and-forth-what's-going-to-happen-oh-god" quality, and Oberyn yelling out and pointing to Tywin really gave me goosebumps. Also, it was nice to see some real skill at arms on the show for once!

Vale scenes fluctuated a lot. Although I like the route the book takes with the singer Marillion far more, I thought Baelish's lies and apparent lies-through-Sansa were great. The fluctuation happened when it was revealed that Baelish really WAS lost without Sansa, and it was she who came up with the lies. Maybe D&D know some things about Sansa in Winds of Winter and how under-handed she'll become, but they should NOT explore this at the expense of Baelish's character. They made him look lost and incompetent. This was my biggest criticism of the episode.

After a lot of thought, I've decided the Theon/Reek scenes were good. Alfie Allen really is amazing. Oh, and seeing an ironborn being TOUGH for once in Ralf Kenning was nice. The reason why I didn't come to love the Theon scenes initially was because I thought it was too damned fast. In an episode exploring the love life of Missandei and Greyworm and the plight of beetles, it felt cruel to have it cut between negotiation and flaying so quickly. The scene in the books, where Theon has to drink himself through the Ironborn screams beside the hounds, was REALLY powerful, and I wanted that here.

Theon scenes this season in general have a tendency to annoy me, because of how the show kept Theon around through seasons 3 and 4 rather than having him disappear after season 2 and come back in season 5. Now, rather than having a hugely powerful and concentrated storyline with season 5, starting with a powerful reveal moment where you realise this character is still alive... we have the more diluted take on it which the show is doing. Uggh. It just feels like such a disservice to one of the greatest characters in the book. If you're only going to have him appear every 2 or 3 episodes, at least give his scenes more focus/length than some other bits of filler in the episodes. (Yes, I realise it's probably because D&D realise that a lot of the TV audience hate Theon/Reek and don't want to see him too often... but honestly... forget those guys! :P)

Moving on, what REALLY surprises me is people here who disliked Jorah's dismissal and described it as "lacking emotion". That scene was the surprise highlight for me, and it almost got a tear from me. And the music, as ever, is incredible. I loved that scene.

And yeah, the beetle scene. I really liked the point of it, but it just went on for far too long.

(also 'dis is my first AFOIAF post hai guys!)

Edited June 2, 2014 by JaihminBuhlal

[Prince of the North]

It was a metaphor for all the senseless acts of mass atrocity that humans commit. Wars and murder. What is it all for, in the end?

Exactly! Tyrion was marveling at how Orson could take such delight in destroying all those beetles and it was a metaphor for how people in general will destroy things simply because they can and to make themselves feel more powerful. I think it's a metaphor for the game of thrones itself, for the endless pursuit of power for power's sake that so many in Tyrion's world seem to be caught up in.

As you say - what's it all for in the end? And will it mean anything when the cold winds blow and the White Walkers come? :uhoh:

[The onion wight]

I gave it a 7 or 8.

My opinion of it fluctuated multiple times throughout watching it, but overall, dat's some good TV rite thar.

I thought the duel itself was just as powerful as it was in the books, honestly. My only qualm was it could have gone on longer, but it DID have that nice 'back-and-forth-what's-going-to-happen-oh-god' quality, and Oberyn yelling out and pointing to Tywin really gave me goosebumps. Also, it was nice to see some real skill at arms on the show for once!

Vale scenes fluctuated a lot. Although I like the route the book takes with the singer Marillion the most, I thought Baelish's lies and apparent lies-through-Sansa were great. The fluctuation happened when it was revealed that Baelish really WAS lost without Sansa, and it was she who came up with the lies. Maybe D&D know some things about Sansa in Winds of Winter and how under-handed she'll become, but they should NOT explore this at the expense of Baelish's character. They made him look lost and incompetent. This was my biggest criticism of the episode.

After a lot of thought, I've decided the Theon/Reek scenes were good. Alfie Allen really is amazing. Oh, and seeing an ironborn being TOUGH for once in Ralf Kenning was nice. The reason why I didn't come to love the Theon scenes initially was because I thought it was too damned fast. In an episode exploring the love life of Missandei and Greyworm and the plight of beetles, it felt cruel to have it cut between negotiation and flaying so quickly. The scene in the books, where Theon has to drink himself through the Ironborn screams beside the hounds, was REALLY powerful, and I wanted that here.

Theon scenes this season in general have a tendency to annoy me, because of how the show kept Theon around through seasons 3 and 4 rather than having him disappear after season 2 and come back in season 5. Now, rather than having a hugely powerful and concentrated storyline with season 5, starting with a powerful reveal moment where you realise this character is still alive... uggh. It just feels like such a disservice to one of the greatest characters in the book. If you're only going to have him appear every 2 or 3 episodes, at least give his scenes more focus/length than some other bits of filler in the episodes. (Yes, I realise it's probably because D&D realise that a lot of the TV audience hate Theon/Reek and don't want to see him too often... but honestly... forget those guys! :P)

Moving on, what REALLY surprises me is people here who disliked Jorah's dismissal and described it as "lacking emotion". That scene was the surprise highlight for me, and it almost got a tear from me. And the music, as ever, is incredible. I loved that scene.

And yeah, the beetle scene. I really liked the point of it, but it just went on for far too long.

(also 'dis is my first AFOIAF post hai guys!)

The problem with keeping Theon in stasis for 2 seasons is that Alfie would go off and commit himself to other projects, I.e. they might potentially lose him. Contracting actors will be a big consideration for how they develop the characters.

[Juan_Snow]

Sorry can't let that slide. The duel was terrible. The Red Viper was pulling Darth Maul moves mixed with a touch of Bruce Lee.

You and I describe terrible things much differently.

[Frey Pies]

Wow...I can't really believe what I just witnessed (on screen and on here)

I don't want to really offend anyone but Im absolutely shocked the number of people who gave this episode 9s and 10s. I mean if you gave this episode a 10 then I guess if someone (excuse the crudeness) took a dump on the screen you would give this a 10 as well.

I'm a big fan of this show and this season has been VERY surprising to me in it's quality (in a good way after the lackluster last season and season 2). Its been very good and certainly there have been a few episodes which I would rate as 8 or 9 (the only 10s from me would be in Season 1 and EP9 from Season 2). This episode had so many cringe worthy scenes it was unreal. I mean it started off with the belching whore and just went downhill from there. Its like 2 am here so I'll try to keep this brief but I'm just so disappointed having waited two weeks and getting this pile of crap.

Grey Worm love story was just so bloody awful. I was getting flashbacks of Jon and Ygrette, it was that bad. The directing was as if the person had no clue. What was up with those extreme close ups of Jorah's face in the throne room scene? Is Emilia Clarke made of wood? How can one call that acting? So so so bad. And those cuts from Dany to Jorah and back and forth when he is kneeling...I am just lost for words how butchered that scene was.

Now to show I am not biased some things were good. The Boltons were quite good as was the Moat Cailin scene. Naked Missendei was absolutely fantastic...the woman is a goddess. But of course was spoiled with the cuts back to Grey Worm's expressionless face. The duel was fairly good but the guy playing the Mountain was terrible. Season 1 Mountain was by far the best of the bunch...kinda funny they used 3 separate actors.

This episode should be called Close Ups and Cringe Worthy Scenes (I challenge someone to count the number of close ups on faces). I give this an extremely disappointed 2...and from the previews for next week it looks like its more of the same unfortunately.

See, there are probably many more people, including me, who are shocked by the amount of 6,7 and 8s it's getting on Westeros.org (many of us think that it deserves a 9 or 10). People are always going to have different opinions, bro- that statement of yours was kind of an extreme overreaction :)

[Lord Jibblejab]

The problem with keeping Theon in stasis for 2 seasons is that Alfie would go off and commit himself to other projects, I.e. they might potentially lose him. Contracting actors will be a big consideration for how they develop the characters.

Yeah, I can appreciate that I suppose. I just can't help but whinge about it anyway :)

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

For all the Beetle haters...

Would you rather have 10 minutes of Tyrion eating bacon and sausage and applecakes, and a double helping of fried eggs cooked up with onions and fiery Dornish peppers?

:P :P :P

10 minutes at any point showing there was actually an army coming to the Wall might have been nice. Hell, even 1 minute. Ever.

[Cas Stark]

10 minutes at any point showing there was actually an army coming to the Wall might have been nice. Hell, even 1 minute. Ever.

I've thought that was kind of strange also, we know they already shot the army, so I have been expecting something from the Mance camp here or there the whole season.

I wonder, are the TV only viewers going to be like, who is this guy again?

[JaimeTheBoy]

A good episode let down by a few moments:

1) Petyr had no plan, which is completely out of character. There is o why he would rely so much on Sansa. It just slightly undermines how exceptional he is at playing the game if he needs a 13 year old to stop him from being killed.

2) The Mereen scenes are exceptionally dull (the Jorah scene was good) but the pointless Grey worm missandei relationship is taking valuable screen time away from important plot points and characters.

3) Leaving the scenes that everyone wants to see until the end of the episode is very frustrating. It works when some of the other scenes are before are exciting and develop the plot, but in this case it felt very cheap. Of course i understand the need of putting the duel at the end but another scene explaining the vipers reputation or anything relevant in kings landing would have been good. The best actors are all in kings landing they should make the most of it.

Overall 6/10