How would you rate episode 408?

[mrlukeduke]

For me this was one of, if not the best, episodes of the last few seasons. Not quite on par with season 1 YET, but they're bringing it back. They slowed everything right down, no cheesy scenes. Some odd choices yes, but on the whole, stunning character-based performances all-round.

I really want to know what the 'beatles' conversation meant! Really cryptic.

[Andrés Garcia]

I would've given the episode an 8.5, but I was generous and rounded up.

It was good television. All of it.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Andrés Garcia

[Devlonir]

9/10

I liked the opening scenes at Moletown as a good setup for the next episode. Also gave Ygritte a moment to come back to the memory of the Unsullied as a girl with her heart in the right place.

The scenes with Ramsay and Theon were good, but the story behind it not explained well enough. Unsullied have no idea why this was an important location to take. Also the fact that it was not Roose but only a King who has the power to legitimize him was not presented well. Many Unsullied think it was Roose who did it. This will confuse people later on.

Grey Worm and Missandrei was a nice added bit to the story. As it also shows how he is evolving from being emotionless by training to becoming more human. I'd say it does it better than the book.

The change around of the Jorah story worked pretty okay too. If they did it in book timing he would've been off screen for many episodes. Now he can pick up again almost immediately start of Season 5. Also, I loved Danny's acting in that scene.. the fact she did not look at him at all, even when he stood up it was clear she was looking through him. 10/10 that scene.

Hound & Arya is the coolest addition to this entire season in all episodes. The two just work so great together on screen. Though it feels forced for them to go where the rest of the story will take them now, that is a minor point. The ending of that scene with Arya's laughter worked really well and looking at the end of the episode where Tyrion did not do it, it was a great homage to the Tyrion book reaction.

Sansa scene was also a nice change. Makes one wonder where she goes next season. She was put forward as a capable manipulator in that one scene, and the visual of her growing up in the more lady-like (instead of girly) dress at the end gave that a strong visual cue as well. I still feel it is a shame they rush that entire plot though.. Also.. the little hint when LF talked about 'many ways to die' was awesome.

Beetle scene was a bit odd and felt out of place.. but I loved the little 'bro moments' the two brothers had. The beetle story and the fact he cannot explain why they die is a strong description of life in Westeros in general.. people don't die for important reasons, just because someone above them feels like it.

And finally.. the duel.. 10/10 in my books. A few tweaks, but it was so well presented in general. I was surprised they did not make it very clear what is most special about Oberyn's fighting, just little hints. I'm sure it will be explained next episodes. In the current situation.. We are still unsure if the Mountain dies or is just crippled or heavily injured. I like that as it strengthens the cliffhanger.

All things considered, everything they did add and did not add was well thought out.. and the scene shocked even book readers.. what more do you want really?

So yeah.. 9/10.. not perfect, a few nitpicks.. but in general a great episode with a lot of conclusions and future set ups.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Devlonir

[Holymoly]

8 from me.

-1 for the whole Grey Worm / Missandei protracted nonsense

+1 for the bewbs however

A bit odd that Arya reached the Vale. In the book I seem to remember after she left Sandor to die she drifted around a bit until she caught a boat to Braavos? Surely they can't have her meeting up with her sister? Equally the guard on the Bloody Gate must at least mention that he had seen Arya Stark unless Littlefinger sees that the information goes no further. Some significant departures from the books in this series. Maybe it's the scriptwriters preparing for taking over the narrative when GRRM gives up. I can quite see him turning his attention to writing for the TV rather than the books now to finishe the story.

[Ravi Seaworth]

Unlike many of you, I liked the first half of the episode, as usual set up. Simply, I think the acting was good, especially in the Eyrie and with the Boltons. The scene with Missandei was normal, but the interaction between Danny and Jorah was good, different from everything we have seen from Daenerys. Mole's town was indeed a little more of redundant violence, given what we saw in previous episodes. Arya's seemed ridiculous at first, but to the unsullied viewer it is actually an appropriate reaction. Nothing ever goes as planned; it's so ridiculous that you can only laugh. Jaime and Tyrion was somewhat boring, but their conversation was a lyric introduction to the fight. Compared to the trial, this clearly lacked a greater emphasis, but I prefer rushed to dragged out. I guess they really tried a different approach that didn't work with many people. To me, it was fine. Not perfect, I agree, since I was not totally impressed. But not knowing what was coming would have helped to increase the shocking effect. Overall, a solid 8. Worthy of being amongst the second best episodes, but not there along with the typical WOW episodes, as episode 9 should be.

[Ladywhiskers]

10/10 for the duel. Very faithful to the book. Oberyn studied poison in college and is known as the Red Viper, so I'm sure the poison is staying, just didn't belong in this episode.

Brilliant: Sansa's scene, pretty much every minute of the duel, especially Jaime's reactions, Tyrion's monologue summarizing the human condition and foreshadowing the crushing of Oberyn's skull, and descriptive of Tywin, The Hound, and the awful Gods of this universe. Arya's laugh, so funny and so sad at the same time. None of Arya's relatives seem able to stay alive long enough for the Hound to get paid.

Nice: Ygritte's moment of saving Gilly. Gilly's fight with the skinny ho, the Boltons, Theon's tragically good performance as himself, persuading the Ironborn to surrender only to see them flayed later.

Missandei and Greyworm look too much alike, and I worry that they are brother and sister. They are adorable, but the timing was bad on this. Should have happened sooner--with Oberyn and Tyrion on the table I don't really care about them, or Theon.

Danaerys seemed absolutely insane, when she banished Jorah. Completely nutters. It was similar to the look she had on her face right after Viserys died, and her voice was strangely hollow. I get the distinct impression that she snapped. Sending Jorah away was a huge mistake, and had she thought about it awhile before making a snap decision, she might not have done it. After all, he did keep her from drinking the wine, and he did stay with her after that, completely loyal.

I disliked feeling sympathy for Ramsey, when he was told he's now a Bolton, not a Snow. Fortunately the vulnerable look left his face fairly quickly and was replaced by one even crazier than Danaerys', a somewhat chillingly fanatical expression.

Also the fact that it was not Roose but only a King who has the power to legitimize him was not presented well. Many Unsullied think it was Roose who did it. This will confuse people when Jon gets offered it by a king.

That's not quite true. Any father can legitimize his own bastards. Roose could have done it at any time. He just didn't really want to. He didn't trust Ramsey. Eddard Stark could have legitimized Jon Snow, but he didn't, because Catelyn would have been livid. Anyone can claim and legitimize his own bastards, but it's rarely done because this often puts the bastard in line ahead of legitimate children.

It takes a king to legitimize someone else's bastards, though. Robb could legitimize Jon Snow and name him his heir, because Robb was King. Same with Stannis.

[Frey Pies]

I'm actually really curious about what problem do people have with Missandei and Grey Worm's scenes- is it that they feel that Grey Worm cannot have affection without lust? Surely, it can't be about it being filler, since we don't even know where this is going. I thought it was a wonderful and quiet moment, something the show does very rarely.

[Skythe1]

Anybody else think that the eye gouging and head popping looked pretty fake? Emilia Clarke's acting was a bit wooden too... Good job Iain Glen saved the scene.

Apart from that I thought it was a good episode, bit of an anti-climax with the fight though, I thought it would get more screen time.

[Hodor knows]

I really want to know what the 'beatles' conversation meant! Really cryptic.

It was an analogy to point out just how lucky Ringo really was.

[AmyLoveAryaSansa]

for all the episodes until this one, I never consider GoT too bloody to watch. I mean, I'm not a fan of killing scenes, but I think I can go with them. But for how the Mount kills the Viper, OMG, I didn't even want to recall it now. It's really too bloody that I think I might have nightmare.

[Ilúvatar]

I'm actually really curious about what problem do people have with Missandei and Grey Worm's scenes- is it that they feel that Grey Worm cannot have affection without lust? Surely, it can't be about it being filler, since we don't even know where this is going. I thought it was a wonderful and quiet moment, something the show does very rarely.

The difference between affection for say, a cute little puppy, and affection between a man and a woman is sexual desire. Without some kind of hormone replacement therapy, a man who has been castrated isn't going to experience such desire... and certainly not to the extent implied in the show when Grey Worm was watching Missandei in the river.

It just seems like the show producers can't bear the thought having two good looking actors on screen without some kind of sexual encounter happening. The fact that Unsullied are fully castrated in the books - i.e. the pillar and the stones are completely removed - probably won't even stop them from showing what they want to show.

And beyond being a butchery of everything we know of the Unsullied from the books, I just don't find the relationship entertaining in any way. Friendship between the two characters would be fine as long as it doesn't make up too much filler content, but what they're showing is the kind of cringeworthy tripe i'd expect to see in a bad romance drama or some awful fanfiction story. It's bad enough that I have to tolerate the cheese fest that is show-Daario, D&D's Daenerys worship, and Emilia's bad acting.

[Rysler]

It's a 7, when trying very hard not to compare it with the books.

Starting with the Wall and Beetles, that was just nonsense. Missadei/Grey Worm was rather more interesting, but given way too much focus. I don't appreciate Sansa's transformation or his relationship with Baelish. I don't understand what Sandor and Arya are doing in the episode. Along with so much nonsense and inconsistency.

Then the important scenes. The Northern part with Theon and the Boltons was actually pretty solid. No complaints there. Jorah's banishment, in my opinion, was handled reeeeally badly. Dany had next to no emotions about it and it just came out of nowhere. And the duel. It was flashy and cool, I give you that, but it deserved much, much more focus, screen time and build-up.

All in all, I feel really underwhelmed. Obviously the show holds little shock value to me, but I don't feel like they handled this one properly.

[Daenor]

8/10 for me.The duel was great as expected.I don't get it why they keep this stupid Missandei- Grey Worm thing.They may be both adorable characters for me but i'm not interested in watching a pointless romance between them.

And i definitely don't like some of the changes made in the Stark kids story.There were supposed to be all dead but for Sansa .But every now and than they'll appear and reveal their identity to as many people as possible.I don't see any point in this and how it makes a better plot or why it was necessary for a TV adaptation.

edit:Theon's scene was good too.Alfie has been performance is brilliant and it shows us every time how much broken Theon is.As for the complaints concerning E.Clarke i don't think she's the one to blame.She's a professional actor and adding emotion to a scene is not a big deal.So i guess it's the directors or the writers who demand this kind of play on her behalf.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Daenor

[mrlukeduke]

It was an analogy to point out just how lucky Ringo really was.

Ha! :cool4:

[taipan]

Anybody else think that the eye gouging and head popping looked pretty fake?

You expected it to be real?

[Dornishwoman's Husband]

Without the duel at the end, this episode would have been a little bit boring. Anyway, my rate is 10 ;)

[boojam]

I'm actually really curious about what problem do people have with Missandei and Grey Worm's scenes- is it that they feel that Grey Worm cannot have affection without lust? Surely, it can't be about it being filler, since we don't even know where this is going. I thought it was a wonderful and quiet moment, something the show does very rarely.

I am too.

In Dance there are what? ~ 14 Daenerys chapters, if one counts the Quentyn Martell ones (something like that) , on the page I enjoy George's 'looping' around . I know we get Barristan Selmy's POV interjected into the story... all this works on the page, for me,... but when I think of Dance, and we are into it now, besides the BIG scene and Quentyn's story what does one translate to a visual narrative at Meereen?

Inventing a , what seems to be (can only be) Platonic relations ship between Missandei and Grey Worm is a great subplot, since have had an age up (forced by law) of Missandei , so use it for drama... I like it.

It's not quite the same, but anyone around here know the Héloïse - Abélard story?

I agree with the analysis of this as given by the captains of this forum...

Edited June 3, 2014 by boojam

[boojam]

You expected it to be real?

Remember BLADE RUNNER?

Nope that didn't look real either.

[Mulled Wino]

6. I really can't get over the plot holes and utterly unimaginable actions that the characters (especially at the wall) that are force fed the audience.

Jamie and Tyrion was an odd scene that did nothing for me.

[Skythe1]

You expected it to be real?

I expected it to look pretty real, yeah. Plenty of films with smaller budgets that GoT have made a pretty good go of it.