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How would you rate episode 408?

How would you rate episode 408?  

830 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      12
    • 2
      11
    • 3
      10
    • 4
      17
    • 5
      25
    • 6
      44
    • 7
      82
    • 8
      153
    • 9
      252
    • 10
      221


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Was a weird one (probably because I was waiting for the fighting all the time):


- The Greyworm story in general is ok for me, but it felt weird in the episode, just sort of too long and too fillerish


- Bolton part was quiet good, I just sort of wished they kept the Ramsay becoming a Bolton part for "The children" (I know it's probably too much in there already, but it just would have felt to fit the theme so well)


- Arya's scene was a little weird. Hardly any reaction to her being alive? How is LF not going to know that she showed up? I liked the crazy laugh though.


- I enjoyed Sansa. In the end it got maybe a little bit too "Malificent", but overall I like it


- I would have placed the Wall part more towards the end, I think to lead up more to what is coming, but it was ok


- The Beetle. I really don't know what to make of it. Probably just too long and maybe forshadowing the fight, because I expected a more "satisfying" ending for that story. :D


- The fight itself was good, maybe a little too short



- Overall I think most of the scenes I liked, but I would have placed them very different. I think with a episode title the duell could have been a little more prominent and of course it has to end with that, but I would have also maybe started with KL shorten the part of brotherlove before the duell, but maybe have an additional scene with a Tyrion "metaphoric speech thingy" at the very beginning of the episode (maybe with Oberyn in, I sort of found it a little sad that there was no glimpse of him at all before the fight scene started), so that the duell would have "framed" the episode (and maybe the speech could have been some general metaphor also connecting the others scenes of the episode a little more thematically), then the wall stuff more towards the end as a transition for what's to come.


I don't know, I just feel the episode was a little bit more "puzzled" together than previous ones, where they found a more general theme which connects the pieces (like the "sibling" episode) But maybe there was a overall theme and I just missed it, being excited for the fight. :D So while I liked many individual scenes as an overall episode it felt maybe not as good as its pieces.


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I'll give it a 9, im willing to overlook cons if the pros are strong enough



I loved the duel (Pedro Pascal, you have a fan for life). I loved Sansa Stark (Sophie Turner, my apologies for ever doubting you) and the Bolton scenes were awesome.



I didn't really care about the Wildlings or the NIght's Watch and Dany....im sorry I just think id like this show more if she wasn't in it.


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Ok, I just watched it, and I have no idea why people on this site are hating it.



Everything about this episode, EVERYTHING, was pretty much spot on. The greatest episode the show has ever done, imo.



There was not a single scene that I didn't think was top class. I loved how non-dramatic they made the duel- it felt very brutal and very, very real- probably my favourite moment from the show ever now.



For people hating on Emilia Clarke, I think the way she acted was perfect for that scene- putting on a cold facade to make banishing Jorah easier.

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The duel was exceptional work for TV series. I don't think they could caption the close battle scenes better. They also made clear that Oberyn was winning and didn't finish him off because he wanted him to publicly confess that Tywin was behind Ellia's death. He even pointed at him at some point.


Sansa's storyline is simplified for the watchers sake.


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The duel was exceptional work for TV series. I don't think they could caption the close battle scenes better. They also made clear that Oberyn was winning and didn't finish him off because he wanted him to publicly confess that Tywin was behind Ellia's death. He even pointed at him at some point.

Sansa's storyline is simplified for the watchers sake.

Sansa's storyline is not simplified. IMO, it is improved upon. If that is the last we see of Sansa this season, then I'll still be immensely satisfied. I LOVED the Sansa we just saw.

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People dont want to actually think about what they see on screen and figure it out. This is why you have people complaining about the beetle story. It makes them think but its not in the book. Therefore its bad by default. Even though you gotta be really thick to miss the

They could have been more subtle with a sledgehammer. Awful scene in an otherwise decent episode. Missendei and Grey Worms little thing was also terrible.

8/10 I guess

Edited by Shaq

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Another quality episode. After some stutters early season they've really brought it the last few episodes. Brilliant fight scene.



The transformation of Sansa! Is she going to take on the name Black Widow?


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Apart from the beetle bit, I loved this episode!! Emilia's acting was kind of stiff and blank for someone who just had the biggest betrayal. Sansa and LF were amazing! WOW!



And the duel scene... ugh watching it was probably worse than reading it. It would be a shame if Pedro is not nominated for an Emmy for guest star or whatever that category is called. He will definitely be missed. Great actor.


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320 votes in, 8.15 average, 9 median, 8.39 normalized average.

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I genuinely feel sad for people who are unable to enjoy the series for the good television that it is, just due to the fact that the books are better.



I gave this episode a 10. Not because it's perfect or has no weaker scenes, but because it stands well above the standards of a television series.


The duel was simply incredible, the empathy Pascal invoked with his performenc had me simply captivated. Even with knowing how it must indeed conclude I was still restless and anxious in a way that I don't recall ever being in response to a TV scene.



It's one thing to be critical of the series and consider how it could've done things better, it isn't the best thing on television and it substantially lacks in substance compared to the books, to me. However, being unable to put that aside and simply enjoy the acting, scenery, costumes and how immersive the series truly is... It just makes me wonder: why do people who dislike the tv adaptation so much continue watching it?


Edited by Andeimir

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I genuinely feel sad for people who are unable to enjoy the series for the good television that it is, just due to the fact that the books are better.

I gave this episode a 10. Not because it's perfect or has no weaker scenes, but because it stands well above the standards of a television series.

The duel was simply incredible, the empathy Pascal invoked with his performenc had me simply captivated. Even with knowing how it must indeed conclude I was still restless and anxious in a way that I don't recall ever being in response to a TV scene.

It's one thing to be critical of the series and consider how it could've done things better, it isn't the best thing on television and it substantially lacks in substance compared to the books, to me. However, being unable to put that aside and simply enjoy the acting, scenery, costumes and how immersive the series truly is... It just makes me wonder: why do people who dislike the tv adaptation so much continue watching it?

Seriously, I agree (except for the not best part). Most TV series can't even dream of having moments like this.

Edited by Frey Pies

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Positives


  • Mole's Town attack - quite liked, the mercy shown to Gilly was a tad cliche but was saved by the rain of blood through the floorboard
  • Moat Cailin - The scene was all about Theon/Reek and and Allen hit another home run.
  • Vale Coroner's Court - menacing and fantastic - felt it was really well done.
  • Ramsay/Roose - I did actually have some chills.
  • The fight - I did actually have many chills. Fell short of awesome level as it just felt a tad rushed.


Negatives


  • Sansa/Petyr - This is actually borderline neutral. I mark it as a -ve on first watch due to the lack of context it has as the scene stood. After building up Baelish as the Master of Puppets it just seemed somewhat OOC at this time. More context later may improve this scene's status.
  • Dark Sansa - I do like the proactive Sansa, but I really dislike the light-switch-flick of her personality. Really shoddily handled IMO. It's not about the medium. They have demonstrated they CAN do nuanced character arcs (Jaime). This just smacks of being a brutal transformation. Were they aiming for surprise? "Lets surprise them by paying homage to Everdeen!" Was it a realisation they had undersold Sansa in the past and were over compensating? I don't know but am disappointed.
  • Pre-trial - just felt rushed. It just seemed to lack the menace of the books. The fore-knowledge of the poisoned blade was the glimmer of hope. It became about how long Oberyn could survive while the poison took hold. Sure they may reveal poison later on, but that just smacks of a cheap "And then they all woke up and it was all a dream" moment. Too much beetles and too little pre-trial tension is disappointing.


Neutral


  • Castle Black - Scene itself was good, but it suffers a bit because of the way the whole Wall story has been constructed, resulting in it feeling a bit out of place
  • Missandei/Grey Worm - .D'awww cute.... and worthless. Great that they are going to these lengths to show the depth of secondary characters. Perhaps one day they will do the same for Stannis, the personality of the dragons (far more critical to Dany's story) or anyone named Tyrell who also has a 'Y' chromosome.
  • The Dismissal - I want to love this scene but something just seems 'off' about it and I just can't put my finger on what that is. It may become clearer with a rewatch. It might be Dany's movements? I just don't know at the moment.
  • The Dog and the Wolf - ending of the scene showed the descent of Arya, sure, but the scene itself just felt disjointed. Good dialogue though.
  • Beetles - I just couldn't care until the bell started tolling, thankfully.


Summary - a solid episode let down by the choppy editing. This season has benefited by longer sequences on each story but this episode just felt like it fell back into the habit of shorter less explanatory set pieces and was just a little less satisfying than it could have been. Perhaps the Black Sansa reveal was a bit more, ummmm, 'stark' because it came after the week break meaning it didn't 'flow' as well. Perhaps the apparent brevity of the Trail was exacerbated coming after the week break too.



I'd like to give it an 8, but 7/10 it is.


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They did it well.

However i am a bit miffed at the moutain portrayed in the show, they Just make him a lesser character.

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I genuinely feel sad for people who are unable to enjoy the series for the good television that it is, just due to the fact that the books are better.

I gave this episode a 10. Not because it's perfect or has no weaker scenes, but because it stands well above the standards of a television series.

The duel was simply incredible, the empathy Pascal invoked with his performenc had me simply captivated. Even with knowing how it must indeed conclude I was still restless and anxious in a way that I don't recall ever being in response to a TV scene.

It's one thing to be critical of the series and consider how it could've done things better, it isn't the best thing on television and it substantially lacks in substance compared to the books, to me. However, being unable to put that aside and simply enjoy the acting, scenery, costumes and how immersive the series truly is... It just makes me wonder: why do people who dislike the tv adaptation so much continue watching it?

So you, and many others who do the same thing, gave a ... by your own admission ... imperfect episode a perfect score?

The Wire, Hannibal, The Americans, The Sopranos, Community, Nip/Tuck, Battlestar Galactica (till crappy season 3+) Frasier, South Park, Seasons 1-3 Family Guy, Law & Order Special Victims, True Detectives, House of Cards, The Office, IT Crowd, Father Ted ... the list goes on, and on.

There is plenty of amazing T.V out there, so that when a show doesn't deserve a perfect rating we can go ahead and not give it one. You have already agreed that there were some weaker scenes.

Alot of people are complaining about the 'always unhappy about everything crowd', but what about the 'best hour of television in history of television!!!!!!!!!' crowd? Constantly overrated disappointing episodes as 'best in the series', 'better than all other T.V' etc.

If you think that was a perfect hour, without any faults I really wish I could see it that way. I don't mean that sarcasticly, I mean it sincerely, I wish I could have sat back at the end of that and said 'well that was fantastic', instead, my immediate reaction was 'that's it?'.

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I don't exactly want to give any episode of Game of Thrones a low rating. I want to love them, since I love the books and season 1 was absolutely amazing. The show has potential. That's why it's disappointing when it doesn't quite reach the level of greatness it can. I don't find it appropriate to give a disappointing episode of Game of Thrones a 10, when I give the same rating to masterpieces like There Will Be Blood and Apocalypse Now. When an episode of Game of Thrones genuinely wows me, I'll be the first person to give it a high rating and praise it endlessly. Until that point though, I've got to be honest with myself and give it an honest rating.


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Gave it an 8. I have given at least three 8's so far this season. Highest was a 9, lowest this year a 7.

The only low for me was the beetle story. I just kept thinking, "why do beetles die"? Hopefully it doesn't replace, "where do whores go"?

Highs, action at the wall, Snow becoming a Bolton, Sansa becoming an active player and of course the duel.

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Very good episode in places. Terrible in orders.



Moat Cailin was brilliant but the flaying part was rushed. I'm guessing they didn't want to have another shock part in the episode. Legitimising Ramsey was great. I love how calm Roose is. Next season is going to be amazing.



Mole's Town was very good and the conversation between all the Night's Watch brothers was the best they've ever done. How are there only 102 men? I thought few episodes ago there were 500? Somebody messed up there.



The Grey Worm/Messandai story was pointless and utter crap. Trying to add terrible filler to Dany's story is only going to make the Meerenese Knot even more unbearable and boring.



Jorah being exiled was done very well.



The beetle story started off great but had a god awful conclusion. Maybe in the future George will be the moron and the books will be the beetles if he doesn't hurry up and get them out in time.



The trial by combat was amazing. I loved how Oberyn just lost it and got angrier and angrier. The final scene was very rough to watch. Eyes, teeth and brains….YUCK!!!!

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I gave it an 8, I though it was a pretty solid episode.






:agree:



I've come to enjoy the Grey Worm and Missandei scenes. Daenerys confronting slavery is a massive theme over the last few seasons and promises to remain so. And freedom from slavery is an immensely, overpoweringly personal experience. Look at what Grey Worm and Missandei have discussed in their scenes: their abductions; their initial enslavements; their memories before slavery; their gratitude to Daenerys. Both of them are struggling to being people once more after years of being property.



Most fans cannot easily relate to their struggle. It's also not something popular audiences are used to seeing. Many posters are calling it a "romance," and while that element is there it is only a part of the Grey Worm/Missandei dynamic. We recognize the brash hero (Oberyn), the witty misunderstood rogue (Tyrion), the crazy queen (Cersei), the wandering swordsmen (The Hound and Arya), and the noble soldier (Jon). How former slaves live their lives after being freed doesn't fit the normal fantasy mold. But I think it makes a nice complement to the steady stream of violence, sex, and brutality of the show.







Yes! "Having their first crush" is an excellent comparison. We're seeing adults struggle with their feelings, emotions, and relationships in a manner more commonly associated with teenagers today. Slavery and Grey Worm's castration are the reasons behind this arrested emotional development. I think it's great, but understand how it can throw viewers at first.





Agree completely.



Meereen is not the most exciting of plots and this is a good way to give it some more meat. It's also an interesting way to explored the idea of non-sexual love.


Edited by MoIaF

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I don't exactly want to give any episode of Game of Thrones a low rating. I want to love them, since I love the books and season 1 was absolutely amazing. The show has potential. That's why it's disappointing when it doesn't quite reach the level of greatness it can. I don't find it appropriate to give a disappointing episode of Game of Thrones a 10, when I give the same rating to masterpieces like There Will Be Blood and Apocalypse Now. When an episode of Game of Thrones genuinely wows me, I'll be the first person to give it a high rating and praise it endlessly. Until that point though, I've got to be honest with myself and give it an honest rating.

Just to pick up from your point here.

The directors of this show, unlike alot of works that have to be invented, written on a series by series basis, have a solid base to work off of with GRRM's books.

As, someone who watched seasons 1-3 THEN read the books (at DoD now) I was amazed when dialogue in the show appeared in the books practically word for word, that just show's you how solid the work the directors are adapting is.

Therefore, when they fail to adapt work that is solid we have every right to point out 'WTF are you doing?'.

Now you can point to limits of the medium, so skipping battles and such is ok as long as the core emotional content and meaning of the books is kept.

But, it is starting to deviate badly as each small change ripples bigger and bigger.

For example the wacky adventures of those lovely mismatched buddies Arya and The Hound is well past its due to be finished and is getting crammed with all sorts of sh*t that is dragging it out, and actually destroying some of the character developement.

Then you have the fact that Tyrion cannot be dark around the edges, unlike his book counterpart, and so he is always good, and kind and just ... ok, he is sometimes selfish and enjoys the odd whore, but don't we all har har har. This then has the side effect of limiting Jamie's arc as we already have one good as can be Lannister, so Jaime transforming into a sorta not so much of an asshole isn't as huge a thing.

To get back to my point though. They HAVE solid source material. If they adapt it badly we should call them out on it.

People such as myself who enjoy the books more, I think, are just frustrated that so many people's only contact with the work is through the T.V show ... and its short changing them of a much richer and ultimately better story.

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So you, and many others who do the same thing, gave a ... by your own admission ... imperfect episode a perfect score?

The Wire, Hannibal, The Americans, The Sopranos, Community, Nip/Tuck, Battlestar Galactica (till crappy season 3+) Frasier, South Park, Seasons 1-3 Family Guy, Law & Order Special Victims, True Detectives, House of Cards, The Office, IT Crowd, Father Ted ... the list goes on, and on.

There is plenty of amazing T.V out there, so that when a show doesn't deserve a perfect rating we can go ahead and not give it one. You have already agreed that there were some weaker scenes.

Alot of people are complaining about the 'always unhappy about everything crowd', but what about the 'best hour of television in history of television!!!!!!!!!' crowd? Constantly overrated disappointing episodes as 'best in the series', 'better than all other T.V' etc.

If you think that was a perfect hour, without any faults I really wish I could see it that way. I don't mean that sarcasticly, I mean it sincerely, I wish I could have sat back at the end of that and said 'well that was fantastic', instead, my immediate reaction was 'that's it?'.

Nothing is perfect. Or at the very least, nothing subjective is ever perfect.

I can't think of any TV series episode which I consider perfect (and I've seen the ones you've listed, and many more), everything has faults, highs and lows. This episode, to me, was the best of the season and therefore naturally also one of the best in the series following the latter half of season 1, which is where it peaked for me, so far. Given that, and given that it stands as high above the tv norm as it does, I feel that a score of 10 is justified.

Simply put, I scored it on a relative scale, not an absolute 'logical' one.

As previously stated, I don't think Game of Thrones is the best thing on television. We've had True Detective (which you yourself listed) which, in my opinion, easily claims that title for this year. Furthermore, not unlike yourself I too am irritated by the crowd which speaks of GoT as the greatest thing ever, blind praise and overhyping bothers me almost as much as snide elitist negativity does. I don't think I've displayed the former in my comment.

My issue isn't with people not praising the series, it's perfectly understandable that some might not enjoy things to the extent or in the way that I do. Just as an example, the setup scene with Roose and his bastard was fantastic for me because it really felt that I, as an audience, was right there in the wind-swept vastness of the north and every shot had this authentic look and weight to it. It was a short and relatively minor scene, but I just loved it.

There is a great span of grey between the radiant white that the fandom of the tv adaptation hype, and the darkest of blacks that some people on these boards claim the series to be. The primary reason why the latter does irk me a little more is because to me it means that people are missing out on great television, the praising fans don't deny themselves much beyond their critical thinking.

Edited by Andeimir

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