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How would you rate episode 408?

How would you rate episode 408?  

829 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      12
    • 2
      11
    • 3
      10
    • 4
      17
    • 5
      25
    • 6
      44
    • 7
      82
    • 8
      152
    • 9
      252
    • 10
      221


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No poison on the end of the spear??? Although anyone catch littlefingers line "some people die hovering over their chamber pot"...but still no poison???? ...and i feel like they undersold oberyns nickname like they had so many times to mention it!...idk im still up in the air...

There was poison, you're not going to be able to see it, why would Oberyn have it visible?

Edited by Cellio

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Gave it a 6.

Missandei/Grey Worm was a yawnfest. The Jorah exile lacked emotional impact and felt like Dany being cruel. Shoulda kept in the stuff about him thinking of her as a chick he fancies instead of his queen.

The Theon/Bolton stuff was good. Wish we'd see more of Roose this season, he's always a delight.

Arya scene was weird. I get what they were aiming for but it did not work for me. Sansa had already revealed her identity by that point, no? The guard didn't think to mention it? They didn't think it was wise to capture her, being Arya Stark and all? Shit writing.

Sansa stuff was surprisingly good. I think I prefer her being more overtly manipulative than she is in the books. I take Littlefinger not having a plan with a grain of salt now, they've already wrecked any subtlety he has in the books.

The Wall stuff was so-so and seemed to be there to a) remind people about the wildling threat and b) add a bit of extra drama with the whole Gilly thing to give Sam something to do next week.

I wish they had spent more time on the duel, and opted for a different pre-duel scene than the Tyrion/Jaime thing. We've already seen plenty of those two together this season. How about Oberyn/Jaime? Would have been cool. Or Cersei visiting Tyrion.

The duel itself was fine, I just wish they'd spent longer on it or had a different scene before it instead.

There was poison, you're obviously not going to be able to see it, why would Oberyn have it visible?

Exactly. Why else would they have the shot of the guy wiping down the spear tip? He was obviously coating in poison.

Do people expect Oberyn to say "BY THE WAY I POISONED YOU" or something?

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But the guy at the gate did know who she was? He'd never seen her before and she still looks like Arry the orphan but he knew who she claimed to be. We don't know yet what happened after Arya stopped laughing. Lets hope for a bit of explanation as to why they were not let in next week.

I think this is true. Donnel Waynwood is he 'Ser Donnel Waynwood"? (that's Alisdair Simpson). Tho he makes no big deal out it, you'd think any Knight of Vale would know all the High Born of Westeros , there not that many, a lot of vassals , knowing all of them, I don't know. But one of the top 7 (there may be 8!) ...'Click!', "Thats odd.".... he thinks.

I know in the 15th century news did not travel fast, but, it's gotten around that the former king is dead and Robert's Hand was executed.. Would think the guardian of the gate would need to know a lot of things. So why didn't he perk up he would have known that Arya is of both Stark and Tully blood? That would have been important in the Vale.

By the by Arya has NOT been taken for a boy since season 2.

The Arry thing is done with.

(I think this was true in the books too.)

Edited by boojam

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My first 10 of the season! Phenomenal television. I was also really happy with the format the storylines took. For an episode that went to just about every location, sometimes in similar episodes a storyline gets lost if its shown after say 5 minutes and then returned to again at the 40th minute. But loved that every location got one 5-10 minute block of time. It really heightened the importance of each IMO.



Positives


- Mole Town raid: Set the tone early. Pacing wise it was a good decision to start off with some action, nice touch with Ygritte not wanting to kill a mother and newborn, maybe she knew she was a fellow wildling too?


- Theon: Continued good work from Alfie. Loved the internal struggle of knowing he has to act assertive and Lord-like discussing the peace terms, but his fragility is just about to burst.


- The Boltons: This may seem really minor to some, but I really really loved that they showed Roose being so immensely proud of holding The North. Similarly, showing how much Ramsay loves the Bolton tradition of flaying (wow, gross scene).


- Jorah sent packing: Better late than never I guess.


- Sansa: Holey shit Sophie is on fire this season. Her 'confession' speech to the Lords of the Vale was great, but the conversation between her and LF afterwards was even better for me because of smart dialogue. A simple line from LF saying better she went with the guy she knows as opposed the stragers she doesn't. And Sansa's line of "I know what you want", the way she looked and the way she said it was terrific.


- Arya/Hound: So perfectly played out. Finally they made it, it's over, they both get sort of what they want. Nope, wait, after a couple of years on the run, Arya is 3 days too late. What else can you do but laugh at the incredible misfortune. Great stuff.


- Tyrion/Jaime: Ok the beetle story itself was a bit weird and i'm sure there is more of a point to it than what I got out of it. But, this is about the most natural on screen conversation you're likely to see. Peter and Nikolai play off each other like they've been friends for 30 years, and what I got out of it was a touching reflective chat between two brothers who love each other and are fully aware there is a good chance it will be the last time they speak.


- The trial by combat: Wow. Speechless. Confronting, emotional, shocking. The fight was really well choreographed. Like most people, definitely going to miss The Red Viper and have a great respect for Pedro's acting for a flawless portrayal of a character.



Negatives


- Sam: His character continues a slippery slope of annoying and pathetic (far more so than the books).


- Missandei/Grey Worm: Not sure where this is going, or why it's going at all, and i'm pretty sure I don't care.


- Dany: I hate harping on about a point i've made a fair few times on these forums now. Emilia's acting sticks out like sore thumb in most scenes. It wasn't as bad as she has been in a few episodes this season, but everything felt very forced, and I think the seething but restrained talk to Jorah needed to be more subtle.


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No poison on the end of the spear??? Although anyone catch littlefingers line "some people die hovering over their chamber pot"...but still no poison???? ...and i feel like they undersold oberyns nickname like they had so many times to mention it!...idk im still up in the air...

not for nothing but why are some people assuming poison wasnt used on the spear?

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8/10



The duel was everything I'd hoped for (apart from Tyrion's vomit) and I thought Sophie Turner was amazing, as usual, but I'm not sure how I feel about the changes in Sansa's story.



I would have given it a nine but it was let down a few poor scenes especially Missandei and Grey Worm - what does the romance add to the show? Could we not fill that time with more of the Red Viper or coldhands ? Did we really need to see a bunch of naked women (of course the men were wearing trousers). To be honest, the pointless nudity is really annoying me as the series progresses.


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I wanted to love this episode, except I just couldn't. The fight especially is what I wanted to love, but I couldn't. There were too many cuts! I didn't feel anything because the edit didn't give me enough time to react. Joffrey had a better death / edit than this, and I actually felt sad, even for Joffrey. But this ... this episode was like Cersei directed, edited, and produced it. Thinks it's good, ends in disaster.

Sorry. Just couldn't. Rated it a 4.

The Boltons and Theon scenes were probably the best and truest of this episode.

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8/10- I don't see why so many people are bitching about Missendei and Grey Worm, there's something beautifully tragic about a eunuch fawning hopelessly over another former slave. Bar Emilia in the Jorah exile scene I thought the acting was pretty great overall. Enthralled by the spectacularly choreographed fight scene and absolutely brutal ending. Satisfied with some good build up to the Bolton's rule over the north and the imminent wildling attack on the wall.



A few downsides were some structural plot issues and poorly executed character moments. Littlefinger's helplessness definitely felt disjointed from the rest of the series, particularly after all the other scenes talking up his intellect and cunning- 'the most dangerous man in all of westeros' left twiddling his thumbs only to be rescued by the a girl who was all too recently an unwitting pawn. D & D definitely jumping the gun on that plot thread. Dany's dismissal of Jorah didn't quite hit the mark either, her inner conflict was not well shown on screen and having Jorah beg made her seem more ruthless and arrogant than ever. Arya and the Hound announcing their arrival at the doorstep of the Eyrie also seems to be a hole the writers will struggle to convincingly dig themselves out of. Also Ramsay's claim to the north via the imposter Arya has so far been ignored so either will be ignored or dropped in as if out of nowhere.



Overall though some fantastic dramatic moments and action set pieces which build towards the series climactic multiple revelations

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365 votes, 8.14 average, 9 median, 8.44 normalized average

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I gave it a 9, I thought it was an excellent episode except for the beetle bit that went on too long. Not sure what that was about.



I loved the Sansa scene at the "trial" and how they changed that from the book - so Royce and the others know she is Sansa Stark already, in the books they do not. Also, that she and Robin are going to go out into the Vale which should be interesting. Her interaction with Littlefinger was just excellent. I like where they are going with the Sansa character, I think she will be Queen one day and a darn good one. She is learning the Game of Thrones.



I was wondering how we would see the spying of the Bear revealed, it made me sad as it did in the books. Mormont is a sad figure, poor Jorah. So it looks like they will keep to his story arc as it is in the books, which means Tyrion's will follow.



I liked Ygritte seeing Gilly and the baby and letting them live.



Oberyn's death was too gruesome for me. I wish he had just killed that Mountain instead of insisting he admit to Elia's rape and murder, and the children's murder. Reading it is one thing, seeing him squeeze his head was too much. Will we fiind out his spear was tipped with poison I hope? The Mountain has to become Robert Strong.



I love this show and think D&D are doing a great job with the series!

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So much was wrong with that episode, not the least the key part, the duel. They thought they knew better - again - and they fucked it up. That's a 2 for me, lowest since the House of the Undying atrocity.

Couldn't agree more; I also gave it a two. And that's only because I couldn't bring myself to give it a 1. Not yet, anyway.

I've been feeling more and more disinterested in the show with each episode. I do understand that changes are necessary when adapting a novel to TV, but I don't understand many of the seemingly unnecessary changes they have been doing. And it seems these are getting more numerous, and even more unnecessary as the show progresses. I mean, there are shitloads of important stuff that's being left out and replaced by... well, meaningless filler, like that whole minutes-long scene about some non-existent Lannister smashing beetles. What. The. Fuck.

The way the inter-characters dynamics are being changed into something very different. No idea why.

Some things that are being changed for what seems to me to be to up the 'gore-effect'.

I also feel that the acting direction is being overlooked; like your commentary, Linda, on the YouTube review for Oathbreaker, when you said someone should have directed Daniel Portman in his horse-riding scene better. Frankly, no one would be that bad at it, and it just looked ridiculous.

I'll probably finish watching this series since there are only two more episodes, but I'm not going to watch the next ones until I've read the conclusion to the saga by Martin.

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This was absolutely fantastic television once again. I rated it a 7, but it was very close to earning the first eight of the season. No weak links and a multitude of amazing scenes, from Moat Cailin and the Winterfell reveal to Jorah's banishment, to Tyrion's beetle monologue…the list goes on. My fourth favorite episode ever, surpassed only by 'Valar Morghulis,' 'The Rains of Castamere,' and 'Blackwater.'


Edited by Haldir Monark

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Well, another 8 for me. Probably deserves better but it seemed so rushed because of the complexity of the story and the inability to get it all in in the episodes available. Plus for the sets, costumes and cinematography. Beautiful.



Best moment for me was Aryas laughter. Exactly how I would have reacted but then I love irony.



The Wall is quickly becoming the most boring story of all when it should have been the most exciting. I fear for next week.



Dany continues to have the personality and acting skills of a dead fish. Her range of emotion lacks a range of emotion.



The Beetle story, ah metaphors and as they go this is a good one. So many possible explanations. I like it being GRRM and killing his characters but Gregor killing everyone is as mindless as Orsons acts.



I like the books better but the changes made make it more interesting for me to follow the series rather than a mindless regurgitation would.


Edited by Ser Graymax

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This duel... perfectly executed, but only to the point where the tables turned.



1. The tripping of Oberyn - it's extremely hard if not impossible, to trip a standing man by tapping him in a boot with a hand. After adding our hero's Jedi level KungFu skills it is really unbelievable how easily he lost balance. This, and the way how easily Oberyn got caught on the ground, without trying to roll away, rise, or anything.



2. Dr. Clegane Dental Service - beating out full keyboard from a mans mouth, with a single blow without a swing, lying flat on the back? Seriously...



3. Crushing skull with bare hands - ok, licentia poetica. It was worth it, as many of us will never forget the look and the sound of it. Most brutal scene i've seen in years. Whole 4 seasons of Spartacus didn't moved me as much as this scene did.



4. Why werent Oberyn smart enough to cripple Mountain before starting his little chat? Blind him, cut his tendons, cut off his damn arms?



5. How many more movie scenes like this will i have to watch, where a character certain of victory starts to talk a bit much, to let the opponent recover and kill him?


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Gave it an 8. Removed myself from the books several seasons ago so I try to look at the shows as a different story. If I compared them to the books each episode would be a 1 or 2.



The battle was great. I was peeking through my fingers when The Viper was getting mad Mountain love.



I liked the scene with Dany and Jorah and Jorah and Selmy.



Greyworm and Missendei was odd but it adds character/story to them both. I also think they are trying to keep the black people in the show since there are very few of them around. I thought they were going to have it so Greyworm still had his bits and pieces. Glad they didn't.



I liked the Eyrie scenes but not sure why they would have Sansa give up who she is and then lie about how her aunt died. And Peter and Sansa would have had plenty of time to go over a game plan after he killed Lysa. That was sloppy.



The Hound and Arya at the Eyrie was also very sloppy. I enjoyed Arya's laughter though and the look on the Hound. But after announcing to the world that he has Arya Stark, why would they even think of allowing them to leave? Let alone allowing the Hound to live? Ultra sloppy. And the obvious downfall of the Hound due to a bite on the neck is just pathetic IMO. Hopefully they have a battle too where he gets it even worse.



Theon and Moat Cailin was pretty good. Loved the scene with him riding holding the white flag. Wish they showed more of the surrender though and the aftermath and Theon's reaction. They certainly had the time to do so.



Was fine with Tyrion's beetle speech. No issues there.



And again the show is well under 60 minutes.



Maybe I should have given the episode a 7 but the final battle was crazy.


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This is the first time I've posted in this topic, and its because I have to downrate it unfortunately. The gruesome scene of Oberyns fate really made me lose respect for the series. They didn't have to go off the deep end with the crushing of skulls. The rest of the episode was just .. ok, Arya and the Hound, Dany banishing Jorah, Theon at Moat Cailin, but everything else just was so-so. I'm not really happy with whatever is going on with Sansa either, but we will see.

I give it a 5 ...

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Well George had Unsullied cuddling with hookers in Mereen, so maybe you should rknow what you are reading.

Cuddling for human companionship does not equate to sexual tension. Besides in the books Missandei is no more than ten years old when freed and a little too young to be involved a consensual eunuch/slave romance.

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I rated it an 8, well maybe 8.5. It was very strong acting throughout, though marginally the episode wasn't as solid as last week.

Elyo didn't seem to like the Daenerys vs Jorah acting, that she should have been raging at him (think how she raged at Viserys "it will be the last time you have HANDS!")....but I think what they were trying to do was have her in "tranquil fury" mode. She didn't rave at Mirri Maz Duur, she just coldly killed her. Being terse like that indirectly hints that she is deeply hurt but trying to hold back her anguish, along with her rage. Yeah, it could have been more, but on the other hand you can't have everyone overacting and raging all the time. I thought it entirely good.

As for the ongoing Missandei/Grey Worm stuff, it's obviously a departure from the books (She's a ten year old, he's a eunuch) but that doesn't make it inherently bad; it's written and acted well enough, I just get nervous about where they're headed; but that's for another day. But I remember the line in the books that just because a eunuch does not have a man's parts does not mean he also does not have a man's heart. As Elyo said, good to see that they're treating the secondary characters in Daenerys's storyline as having emotions/subplots outside of her.

Mole's Town short but too the point, Castle Black scene also short and perfunctory but entirely fine.

So the storylines at the Wall and in Meereen were fine.

All of the Ramsay/Reek/Roose scenes were amazing.

This leaves us with the Eyrie and King's Landing.

Well, to start with, the Tyrion-Jaime beetles thing wasn't really bad, it's just that it wasn't worth 4 f-ing minutes of screentime. It was confusing at first but by the end I understood Tyrion's point about wondering why senseless violence beyond our control happens, and he'd feel better just knowing a reason why. In contrast to Elyo I thought it well acted, and nothing was inherently wrong with it, and I didn't quite feel it "dragged" but it should have been shorter.

As for the fight itself....yeah. The acting was fine. But the fight choreography we can blame squarely on the director. I mean, compare this to the intimacy of the Ned/Jaime fight or Bronn/Vardis fight from Season 1. They didn't have enough closeup shots. Possibly because they needed to use stunt doubles for Oberyn. It wasn't an outright "bad" fight choreography, it just wasn't the stunning fight described in the books. I like it more on rewatch. Elyo often has strong opinions on the actual fight choreography; let me clarify that I'm actually not as versed/opinionated on that frotn, what I'm annoyed about is the *editing* and *cinematography* of the fight, the camerawork. It doesn't outright detract from the episode for me, I just wanted it to be even more intense. I can see why you would compare this to the TV Red Wedding, though they're also quite different categories to compare (while TV first fans were in awe at the simple fact that they killed off Robb, which is something Martin and not the TV show invented, the actual choreography of the massacre would have been better with a few tweaks....I don't know if a TV show can build up dread as easily as a book can without spoiling what's about to happen, but they could at least have had the moment where Dacey Mormont is the only one who nearly escapes the hall only to be killed by the Boltons as the enter).

But I digress....

Long story short, only complaint so far is that the camerawork on the Oberyn/Gregor fight should have been much more intense, akin to the LAST Trial by Combat between Bronn and Vardis. Not that it outright detracts from the show for me, I usually don't worry about action stuff, but plotting. And the beetle discussion wasn't actually bad, it just shouldn't have taken up four full minutes - because that time could have been given to other KL characters.

As for the Eyrie.....yeah....

Well the first and biggest thing is the MASSIVE change of having Sansa reveal her identity to the high lords of the Vale, though only 3 of them and they promise to keep it a secret. Then they flat out have the Hound announce that Arya Stark is at the Bloody Gate...when Arya has been presumed dead for about three years now.

Again, as Elyo pointed out, this isn't *necessarily* bad, but it raises major questions about where they're heading with all of this.

I thought the Arya reaction bitterly laughing about her bad luck was entirely note-perfect. It reminded me of that moment in Titus Andronicus when after Titus learns that his daughter has been maimed (her hands and tongue cut off), his two sons sentence to death, and the emperor said he might pardon them if Titus cut off his own hand and sent it to him.....a messenger returns with his two sons heads and his hand sent back in mockery. Titus then BURSTS OUT LAUGHING because he has not a tear left in his head (Anthony Hopkins was amazing in this).

Arya: When will this fearful slumber have an end?

They're all over the place with Littlefinger and while his acting was okay now, I still wish they'd shown him with more of a plan, though I acknowledge that changing around a reveal of Sansa's identity may have necessitated this (or, enough that I don't mind).

So my only real complaints were: the duel editing, of possibly the biggest one on one duel in the narrative, needed to be a LOT better than it was, though it was servicable enough in writing/acting. Apparently directors Minahan and Kirk (who directed the Ned/Jaime and Bronn/Vardis fights in Season 1) haven't been working on the show since early Season 3, and Graves once was one of my favorites for "Kissed by Fire" but has lost major points after the debacle of the Jaime/Cersei scene in "Breaker of Chains" (though I'm not sure if the writers ordered him to film it that way).

Second, the beetle scene was fine but should have been two minutes, not four.

Third.....WTF?! Okay they reveal Sansa's identity but only to three lords who then promise to keep it a secret (and whom Littlefinger was going to reveal her identity to *eventually* in the books)....but Arya?! Just announcing, "Arya Stark is alive!" -- not inherently bad, but where are they going with this?

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This is the first time I've posted in this topic, and its because I have to downrate it unfortunately. The gruesome scene of Oberyns fate really made me lose respect for the series. They didn't have to go off the deep end with the crushing of skulls. The rest of the episode was just .. ok, Arya and the Hound, Dany banishing Jorah, Theon at Moat Cailin, but everything else just was so-so. I'm not really happy with whatever is going on with Sansa either, but we will see.

I give it a 5 ...

That's how Oberyn died in the books, with his head gruesomely crushed in.

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