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Ran

How would you rate episode 408?

How would you rate episode 408?  

829 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      12
    • 2
      11
    • 3
      10
    • 4
      17
    • 5
      25
    • 6
      44
    • 7
      82
    • 8
      152
    • 9
      252
    • 10
      221


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This was a 10!



--Arya finding out her Aunt Lysa was dead and laughing insanely.



--Even though I despised the Boltons, their story was interesting to watch.



--Sansa entering "The Game", I wonder what she plans on giving Littlefinger.



--Danerys and Mormont's scene was sad to watch. I think she is very ungrateful.



Well it's sad to say but the season is coming down the end. Cant wait for next weeks Battle At Castle Black.


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Too true. We complain about a change that makes no sense or a waste of time and then get derided as being "purists." Well, it's not our fault that GRRM is a better writer than D&D. Excuse us for wanting believable characters, realistic plotlines, and interesting dialogue.

"Power is power" and "Nothing is nothing." Gods save us.

Aye.

as far as I am concerned in 8 episodes, nearly 8 hours, the only lengthy scene that might even be considered a waste of time is the raid on the dread fort (and even then I don't consider it as such). Aside from that every scene has developed a key character or progressed the plot in some way. Based on only a third of a book but they have brought in AFFC material for people like Sansa and Brienne.

Based on the best section of the books I agree, but they have nailed nearly every key scene.

I think the quality of the writing is a matter for debate and personal taste. Personally I loved the beetle scene and thought it very apt that a man being on trial for his life by something like trial by combat would speculate and reminisce about something like this.

On the things that can be objectionable measured like production values and acting performances that was again very very good, and better than most movies.

Yes the show can seem a bit rushed, but that is due to the sheer number of characters and material to get through (which is why I have always argued for cutting back the cast list when they move into AFFC/ADWD proper). There simply aren't loads of wasted minutes that can be given to other storylines so they are more faithful to the books.

Edited by JagLover

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I must have been doing this too and not realizing it! Most of my ratings are between 7-10. I only give a 7 if I feel it's very underwhelming or if they screwed something up that I felt strongly about. But that typically only happens once or twice each season. This season I've mainly given out 9's with at least two 10's already.

I also factor in music and VFX.

Ramin Djawadi has done a lot of work on film and TV and he is a more than above average film and TV composer, not an Alex North , but very good.

Has been nominated for Primetime Emmy Awards but not for GOT. In my mind it's scandalous the show has some of his best work to date and the TV Academy seems oblivious , it is really a puzzle about why no nomination.

I have to say D&D seem to have him write only one new 'theme' (well maybe 1 and some fractions) per season since season 1 , he does rework , with some invention closing sequence backgrounds , he does do a lot of other work, but this show has made him sort of famous. I have in-laws who are musicians (of the classical music kind) and they always remark on the quality of the score. So I don't know what goes on.

I also factor in the CGI-VFX ... this one is subtle... because I am not talking dragons here(which are so different form the multitude of cgi dragons out there right now), but I did not realize , until after the first season that there was a TON of 'landscape fill in' and it all looked good! This kind of thing is below the radar of the casual viewer.

Those are points that's been steady on for four seasons now.

(I wish they would put, I don't think they do, the VFX featurette on the DVDs , I don't think they do.)

Edited by boojam

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Ya I completely agree. FX and musical score are important too. It seems like some people rate the episodes like the academy awards. They think about the acting, writing, FX, editing, etc, and then give a rating. Other people put a ton of weight on the writing, which I agree is very important, but IMO maybe some people put too much weight on it or are overly critical. Again IMO the writing hasn't deteriorated rapidly, and as someone said there's only really been one throwaway scene this season. I understand though that others see things completely differently. What's interesting is that people could read our responses and they'd probably wonder if we're watching the same show.

Edited by TheWhiteRabbit

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Wrestled with the score for this one, and I've decided that I'm just going to go all in with it -- it's a 6 for me. That's the third episode I've rated a 6 across the whole series.

Why? Littlefinger, the man without a plan, dimishing the character yet further, and needlessly. Dark Queen Sansa, so ham-fisted. Arya's reveal, and the sinking feeling that the next time we see the Hound and Arya they'll be trudging back down the high road unmolested with no one think that maybe they should inform Robin Arryn or Petyr Baelish. The endless Orson speech. The heartfelt promise that he wouldn't die, telegraphing that he was indeed going to die. The horribly frenetic editing of the fight scene, the direction choices that left it impersonal, the choreography that necessitated so much stunt double work which meant less intimate scenes and poor pacing. It just was not good at all. For what should have been the most memorable fight scene in the novels, they turned in something that was, frankly, forgettable up to the final moment.

The good stuff: the attack on Mole's Town, the Missandei-Grey Worm material, the Sansa and Littlefinger dialog after she revealed herself to the Vale lords, Moat Cailin, Pedro Pascal's performance.

The Missandei-Grey Worm material? What on earth does that have to do with anything?

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The fact that so many people say 'Arya laughing was the cutest' tells you how badly they have fucked up her arc, she is arguably one of the darkest characters in the book..

^ This.

Her laugh wasn't cute it was maniacal.

Edited by Ser Desmond Wine's Bane

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Ya I completely agree. FX and musical score are important too. It seems like some people rate the episodes like the academy awards. They think about the acting, writing, FX, editing, etc, and then give a rating. Other people put a ton of weight on the writing, which I agree is very important, but IMO maybe some people put too much weight on it or are overly critical. Again IMO the writing hasn't deteriorated rapidly, and as someone said there's only really been one throwaway scene this season. I understand though that others see things completely differently. What's interesting is that people could read our responses and they'd probably wonder if we're watching the same show.

I agree , the writing has remained consistent, with slippage now and then, one can tell when D&D are whooping it up, tho.

The Tavern scene in episode 1 is a gem of dialog exposition and interestingly D&D's direction of it , is an action sequence to make Akira Kurosawa or Sam Peckinpah proud, a sword fight that is like a REAL SWORD FIGHT! If someone is trying kill you , NO FENCING!, Sandor must punch three guys or more , for a count, then they get him down and are kicking him, that's a brawl!

It reminded me of Richard Lester's The Four Musketeers (1974), Lester said he had watched the earlier versions of the story on film, and said something like "If you are really trying to hurt or kill someone in a sword fight, you don't stage it like an Olympics controlled fencing"! When I saw the brawling dirty play in that film, I thought "Yeah!".

I do think this last episode suffered from some compositional problems that a really great editor with a good eye could have fixed... but , in general, they and their editors do a good job with this odd Jaunting about narrative drama.

Edited by boojam

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The Missandei-Grey Worm material? What on earth does that have to do with anything?

Have you read A Dance with Dragons?

There really need to be some subplots in the Meereen story, and this is fine with me.

They have not introduced several characters from that story , it's gotten down to about three maybe four people she talks to... in the book a lot inner thoughts... which aint gonna work as narrative drama.

Edited by boojam

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Benioff and Weiss are hacks, they have no idea about the motivations for these characters. Alex Graves is a hack, he directed every bad episode this season. Benioff and Weiss were the writers tonight, Graves was the director, and this episode was awful. 1/10



They absolutely do not understand the characters, at all. Especially Littelfinger and Roose Bolton.



Also, Arya Stark walks up to the Gate of the Moon and announces herself...and they don't detain her in any way? Stupid scene that doesn't make sense in their own universe. They just absolutely don't know what they're doing.


Edited by Mikeygigs

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To all you complainers who seem to be retaining a set of the books anally and score episodes less than 5. Stop watching. Maybe you would enjoy Survivor or American Idol more.


I have seen all the TV episodes and am reading the first book at present. I am not enjoying it as much as I should because I know what is going to happen. So the TV show can't be that much different as you all imply.


Try reading a James Bond book written by Ian Fleming. The movies are mostly nothing like them.


Edited by paulusar

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Benioff and Weiss are hacks, they have no idea about the motivations for these characters. Alex Graves is a hack, he directed every bad episode this season. Benioff and Weiss were the writers tonight, Graves was the director, and this episode was awful. 1/10

They absolutely do not understand the characters, at all. Especially Littelfinger and Roose Bolton.

Also, Arya Stark walks up to the Gate of the Moon and announces herself...and they don't detain her in any way? Stupid scene that doesn't make sense in their own universe. They just absolutely don't know what they're doing.

The show is not about being the T.V version of the books, it is a whole lot different, plus there are bigger differences than what you pointed out. the show is based on asoiaf,But we should look at it as an independent series based on the books. I find it sad that people are rating the show by how much it resembles the books. Plus, remember that all the episodes are approved by George R.R Martin.

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Anarchosaurus,

It's well-acted material by both of the actors, and fleshes out two of the very few surrounding cast around Daenerys (especially now that that cast has fallen by one). I have no issue with it, just as I had no issue in S1 when they had Rakharo and Irri arguing with one another as a way to flesh out a budding romance there, as well.

Edited by Ran

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731 votes, 8.12 average, 9 median, 8.36 normalized average, 90% "fresh"

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Anarchosaurus,

It's well-acted material by both of the actors, and fleshes out two of the very few surrounding cast around Daenerys (especially now that that cast has fallen by one). I have no issue with it, just as I had no issue in S1 when they had Rakharo and Irri arguing with one another as a way to flesh out a budding romance there, as well.

I don't dispute that it was well-acted. I don't dispute that fleshing out side characters is important. The issue is how much time it took - the opportunity cost. Fleshing out side characters should not consume such a large portion of an episode, particularly when so much else is being neglected.

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I don't dispute that it was well-acted. I don't dispute that fleshing out side characters is important. The issue is how much time it took - the opportunity cost. Fleshing out side characters should not consume such a large portion of an episode, particularly when so much else is being neglected.

HBO's series format of fitting both series and mini series into ~1 hour episode formats.

HBO's recent and excellent mini series PACIFIC , a 200 million dollar production, followed this format.

They are showing The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey which runs 169 min., yeah I know movies and series are different.

However why can't a series episode be , say, 70 min.?

I mean they have to adjust scheduling for anything from a 90 to what a 180 min. movie.

Money has to play a role , but 10 more min...... ?

Edited by boojam

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HOLLYWOOD REPORTER has the news that GOT is just a hair behind THE SOPRANOS for total weekly hours.

18 million per week vs 18.2 per week by 4th season of the Sopranos.

I am willing to bet it's going to break The Walking Dead 18.4 million record.

Edited by boojam

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I don't dispute that it was well-acted. I don't dispute that fleshing out side characters is important. The issue is how much time it took - the opportunity cost. Fleshing out side characters should not consume such a large portion of an episode, particularly when so much else is being neglected.

I would disagree.

Mereen is going to be a key location next year and who do we have there that is interesting?. Aside from the Queen of wood we have Ser Baristan (who I like but cant carry a season) and, gulp, Dario. It is going to be vital that we care about Grey Worm and Missandrei. Added to which following their story makes the whole Slavers Bay story less some sort of white man's burden of Dany bringing civilisation to the savages.

There isn't much, if any, flab to cut out of the series. But many will tell you they are looking forward to the Greyjoys, Quentyn, Faegon etc being added next season.

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To all you complainers who seem to be retaining a set of the books anally and score episodes less than 5. Stop watching. Maybe you would enjoy Survivor or American Idol more.

I have seen all the TV episodes and am reading the first book at present. I am not enjoying it as much as I should because I know what is going to happen. So the TV show can't be that much different as you all imply.

Try reading a James Bond book written by Ian Fleming. The movies are mostly nothing like them.

I love the books AND the show. Be aware that season 1 was by far the most loyal to the books tho.

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To all you complainers who seem to be retaining a set of the books anally and score episodes less than 5. Stop watching. Maybe you would enjoy Survivor or American Idol more.

I have seen all the TV episodes and am reading the first book at present. I am not enjoying it as much as I should because I know what is going to happen. So the TV show can't be that much different as you all imply.

Try reading a James Bond book written by Ian Fleming. The movies are mostly nothing like them.

thanks for that compelling commentary. I'm sure it deeply moved all that read it.

In case you have reading comprehension issues and missed the 50,000 posts by people explaining that their issue isn't with change itself, but the nature of said changes, and the inferior writing of changed material when compared to the original i would suggest backtracking in this thread and re-reading.

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I'm giving it a 7 and that's me being generous.




The beetle monologue was completely unneeded and did NOTHING to further Jaime/Tyrions relationship. I understand the metaphor they were getting at, but it just wasn't symbolic enough to garner a dialogue that could have been used for something WAY better.




The fight scene I completely agree with Ran. The editing and stunt double work took away some of the needed ferocity. I wanted to see the anger on Oberyns face and the Mountain getting more and more annoyed. Instead they made it seem like Oberyn was concerned about playing to the crowd. And is it really that hard to make him scream "ELLIIIAAAA!!" as he stabs the Mountain?? The dialogue they are using to replace some of the most epic scenes in the series is laughable. Kinda like the "Only Cat" miss.



Sansa as Maleficent made me giggle. However they are making LF look far too much under her control when we are two books ahead and she STILL doesn't seem near as confident as she does in the show now.


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