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Ran

How would you rate episode 408?

How would you rate episode 408?  

829 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      12
    • 2
      11
    • 3
      10
    • 4
      17
    • 5
      25
    • 6
      44
    • 7
      82
    • 8
      152
    • 9
      252
    • 10
      221


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I guess Dan Brown isn't a hack either, after all he sold a hell of a lot of books.

Dan Brown, Stephenie meyer, E. L. James, Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins.

Who says you needed well written prose, authentic dialogue, complex well-developed characters or even a basic grasp of the English language to be a best selling writer?

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Oh I forgot about Moles Town....yeah, I didn't appreciate that scene very much. But I suppose I did mention that I did not like the new Thenns. I guess that covers. But I also know the argument that the Freefolk have to be doing "something" while the show continues on. Still...doesnt' mean I have to like it. The scene was crap. It just didn't make sense with how vicious Ygritte killed all those people and then gives a little "shhhh", sparing a woman and her child's life. Oh well. I've seen worse.


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Oh I forgot about Moles Town....yeah, I didn't appreciate that scene very much. But I suppose I did mention that I did not like the new Thenns. I guess that covers. But I also know the argument that the Freefolk have to be doing "something" while the show continues on. Still...doesnt' mean I have to like it. The scene was crap. It just didn't make sense with how vicious Ygritte killed all those people and then gives a little "shhhh", sparing a woman and her child's life. Oh well. I've seen worse.

Yeah I didn't like how they made it so black and white by having that woman be so vile just so Ygritte killing her doesn't seem so bad. I don't have a problem with her finding a terrified Gilly with the child and sparing them. I feel like you can justify that as her experience with Jon rubbing off on her. I know there's no hint of that in the books but I think it's justifiable.

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Yeah I didn't like how they made it so black and white by having that woman be so vile just so Ygritte killing her doesn't seem so bad. I don't have a problem with her finding a terrified Gilly with the child and sparing them. I feel like you can justify that as her experience with Jon rubbing off on her. I know there's no hint of that in the books but I think it's justifiable.

Fair enough.

And yeah, they had the woman belching, threatening Gilly and her baby and being a totally nasty whore of a woman which made her death a good thing. I still think the Thenns were badass enough without the scars, shaved heads, and all the other nuances that the show gave them. I thought they were supposed to be the "Wildling Lords" that were the closest the wildlings came to being like those from the south. You know....they make their own weapons, live in castles, and have titles (Magnar). Oh yeah, and now they're cannibals in the show. I realize this is probably because they are cutting Skagos from the show...but still. I'm not usually this picky but I don't like it. I'm pretty much good with everything, changes and all, except for what they did to the "North". The White Walkers....something isn't right about them, and the Thenns. In my eyes the White Walkers were more ethereal and majestic than the show makes them out to be, and the Thenns (or all the Wildlings) are much like regular men, just a little more wild and with a difference in culture. Everything is so different that it almost makes the land north of the Wall a completely different dimension than the one we find in the books.

In the end, great show. I enjoy it immensely. When it comes to the show I'm not usually a "super book loyalist", although I'll admit I put the books in a much higher regard than the show.

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Bear with me, folks. I've been away for a week on holiday so today was the first chance I had to watch the ep. I've given it a 10. I thought that the Grey Worm/Missandei filler and the similarly divergent 'beetles' monologue by Tyrion could have been trimmed to bring the fight in sooner and allow for more of it, but though this wasn't quite the total thrill-fest last episode was, it was marvellous overall. And I'd assumed the series had hit the brakes totally a few weeks back. That being said, Oberyn's death for me was just as bad as in the books, i.e. not any fun whatever, and it's put me on a bit of a downer it'll take an episode or so of Penny Dreadful to take away. He will be missed. I thought Emilia was excellent in this episode, and don't quite get why she takes so much flak.


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And I can't take many of the 10/10 scorers seriously given that they openly admit the episode wasn't perfect but are giving that score anyway in an attempt to counter someone else's score.

Would it help if I told you I was joking when I made that comment?

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I must say the duel was totally awesome, except of Oberyn shouting "Who gave you the order?" looking at Tywin.A good soundtrack could have made the scene more exciting,and Tyrion should have vomit his breakfast, as in the book. The ending of the scene would have been more disgusting. But overall I really enjoyed it.

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Last week's episode was pretty much perfect. This week's was virtually perfect. That's good enough. Episode 6 I gave a 7 to, and 2 I gave an 8 to, so I don't dish full marks out every time.


Edited by The Killer Snark

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Is it really? based on that logic Titanic is the best movie ever made.

But Titanic is the best movie ever made. Just kidding.

My point is that, being that "D&D are such hacks," it's an accomplishment for the show to have risen to such high levels of viewership. Ya know...in spite of how awful they are.

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Not really? I mean, Michael Bay has made two of the highest grossing films in history, and they're pretty shit. Adam Sandler regularly profits from high-budgeted, terrible comedies because there's an audience for the brand of crap he peddles.

I don't think D&D are hacks. I do think the show's over-praised, critically and popularly, but that's the nature of popular things -- there's a certain common wisdom that will make it easy for people to elide flaws, to play problems down and focus on the positives. There's always positive aspects for the show, there's never been an episode that has been wall-to-wall shit; not even close.

To some degree, I think people look for "enough entertainment". If they get that entertainment in a given hour, the thing's the greatest thing since sliced The Sopranos and they don't worry about the stuff that's more hit-and-miss. They forget about it. They shrug it off, and focus on the positives. And that makes sense, for a lot of people -- they want to feel generally entertained, and if something bores them or is meh, well, that doesn't detract (for them) for the material that does. It's just there, filling time between the good stuff.

Edited by Ran

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Episode 8: This was a fairly decent episode, but the quality varied significantly from one scene to another

(or sometimes even in the *same* scene).

I continue not to care all that much for the bits in the far north. The Night's Watch was OK, Mole's Town

so so. 7

Grey Worm/Missandei romance? Uh oh. It seems they could come up with better stuff to spend time on,

and the dialogue isn't of the most brilliant. The actors are good, though; and perhaps the scene was

intended to showcase their talents. 8

Theon/Ramsey and Vale both pretty good, 8-level stuff. The series successfully shows that Ramsey is

evil in an understated, insouciant kind of way. For the Vale, they seem to be changing a lot, and I'm not

always sure why (which applies to the show in general); but Sophie Turner's performance in particular

made it worth it (bringing it up perhaps to a 9). Of the shorter scenes, I was least impressed with the

LF/Robin scene, but liked the rapport between Arya and the Hound.

The scene where Daenerys tries SJ was well done, an 8.5 or possibly a 9. Very good acting from Ian

Glenn, and SJ seems less a jerk than in the books. But it would have helped if the part had been more

substantial this season.

Tyrion/Jaime was well acted, but I had to wonder why we were spending so much time on beetles. The

show people do come up with odd dialogue at times. Jaime really did have a point. 8

Combat scene: excellent work from Pascal. 9

Final score for this episode: 8

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9/10 and I was being overgenerous. I liked the Vale sequence, because I find it consistent with how I read Sansa's POV.


Moat Cailin was excellent.


Daenerys/Jorah betrayal was the best Dany sequence of the season, although far from excellent.


Grey Worm in love was interesting although I don't know the purpose of it.



Oberyn/The Mountain fight was well choreographed, but it lacked the crescendo feeling I got from the books, although Pedro Pascal did his best.


Tyrion beetle smashing monologue was a puzzle. I believe it was a foreshadowing, but I cannot see its value yet.


Edited by Modesty Lannister

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The Tyrion beetle smashing monologue was a bizarre one; I thought it was a timewaste. It was indeed meant as a foreshadowing, but I thought it was just a little heavy-handed and went on a bit too long.


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^^^ I totally agree: the beetle smashing monologue was way too drawn out.



Otherwise, an 8 out of 10 for the episode, for the same reasons others have already mentioned (the duel, Sansa's scene with the lords of the Vale, Reek/ Theon and Ramsay, Roose legitimising Ramsay).



One thing I would have liked though, was for the Hound to have joined in with Arya's laughter when they were told Lyssa was dead. It would have fit in with the development of their relationship.


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I can't honestly remember. Did Sandor and Arya go to the Eyrie at any stage in the third book? I don't believe they did. That scene made little sense to me, because surely Sansa would have been notified her sister was at the gate, completely out of keeping with the narrative of ASOIAF.


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I can't honestly remember. Did Sandor and Arya go to the Eyrie at any stage in the third book? I don't believe they did. That scene made little sense to me, because surely Sansa would have been notified her sister was at the gate, completely out of keeping with the narrative of ASOIAF.

No, I don't believe they ever made it.

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Round up of other ratings and reviews of S4E8.

Over at Rotten Tomatoes* read , if you have the time, to read the reviews and see if you would assign a 1 or 0 to the review:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/game-of-thrones/s04/e08/

(I note that ,outside of fine episode essays , here on this very web site, I do like Myles McNutt's essays per episode of the show, http://cultural-learnings.com/category/Game-of-Thrones/ .

His critical analysis does not occur in Rotten Tomatoes list, that I know of. If anyone knows of similar essays on the web I would like to know about the.)

Over at IMDb (wonder why there is a lower case 'b' there) I see this:

11479 IMDb users have given a weighted average vote of 9.7 / 10

Why I had not noticed 'weighted average' before I don't know. IMDb says:

"IMDb publishes weighted vote averages rather than raw data averages. Various filters are applied to the raw data in order to eliminate and reduce attempts at 'vote stuffing' by individuals more interested in changing the current rating of a movie than giving their true opinion of it.

The exact methods we use will not be disclosed. This should ensure that the policy remains effective. The result is a more accurate vote average"

Hmmm..... I guess so.

*I do know where the terminology 'Rotten Tomato' comes but it's odd someone must not have been thinking because people threw both Fresh and Rotten tomatoes at a bad oration or stage show ... but I think they are stuck with trade mark madness!!

It happens.

Edited by boojam

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No one is disputing that taken on its own, Game of Thrones is a "good" show. Some claim that anyone who criticizes the show is arguing that it's a bad show. This is a logical fallacy known as the "straw-man" argument: you create a caricature of your opponent's argument, refute the caricature, and then proclaim yourself victorious over your opponent, when in fact you've never actually engaged them. This is a popular tactic among politicians and other professional liars.



Sure, Game of Thrones is good, but that's not the point. What us critics are saying is that amateurish writing ("if I had only loved Jon Snow," CPR in Volantis, the beetle soliloquy, etc.) and bizarre plot tangents (Asha's pointless rescue, Bran's pointless capture, etc.) are holding it back. From a writing standpoint, Game of Thrones is below the standards of other great HBO originals. Now, its incredible source material and big budget have carried it through these deficiencies, but if D&D were adapting any other story (or, heaven forbid, creating their own story), I doubt it would survive a season. Honestly, HBO's contribution to Game of Thrones has been laughable, to say the least.


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Episode 8 was a solid effort, with some thinning around the edges. I watched this episode with a group of six, equally divided between readers and unsullied, and we all seemed to enjoy it for what it was. My wife, who is unsullied, and myself both enjoyed Tyrion’s beetle speech way more than it appears the rest of the internet did. Arya’s manic laughter at the absurdity of their luck was great. Sansa testing the waters of her own power was intriguing. And even though Reek on the show isn’t as physically altered (aside from the obvious lack of his favorite toy) Alfie Allen portrays him with such inner turmoil it doesn’t matter as much as I thought it might. The fight between The Red Viper and The Mountain captured the essence of the book duel. And Pedro Pascal nailed it, I mean that scream he let out was blood curling.

After reading these boards so often after each episode, I’m not sure if the group I watch it with is indicative of a normal Game of Thrones watching group. The unsullied in our group genuinely enjoy each episode, pretty much getting everything they need to, and the readers amongst us have come to the acceptance that the show is basically an alternate universe version of ASOIAF. I mean if you’re a reader, it’s nigh impossible to watch the show without any bias in favor the source material. So, we just think of it as different version of a great story. It will never be as great as the books, but the differences between the mediums are vast when telling such a sprawling story. And in reality the books are still there in all their glory.

To quote James M. Cain - “People tell me, don’t you care what they’ve done to your book? I tell them, they haven’t done anything to my book. It’s right there on the shelf. They paid me and that’s the end of it.”

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Tyrion don't laugh, shittin'out another blasfemy/pray to the lord of Death: The Stranger...



And... why they still mess around with poor Aryia?!


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