Wenda the White Fawn, Septa Lemore and the Toynes

[James Crow]

Septa Lemore Contenders and Pretenders (no particular order)

Ashara Dayne

Reasoning: Logical choice, Targ Loyalty, known to have given birth, dissappeared around the right time

Reasons against: striking purple eyes

Mellario: Evidence: Her leaving story is fishy

Wenda: Fits Thematically very well

Evidence Against: She'd have to have disappeared back when Jamie was 15

Tyene's Mom: Logical choice, is a septa

Evidence against: not blonde

Rhaella Reasoning: Obligatory secret Targ

[Lost Melnibonean]

Septa Lemore Contenders and Pretenders (no particular order)

Ashara Dayne

Reasoning: Logical choice, Targ Loyalty, known to have given birth, dissappeared around the right time

Reasons against: striking purple eyes

Mellario: Evidence: Her leaving story is fishy

Wenda: Fits Thematically very well

Evidence Against: She'd have to have disappeared back when Jamie was 15

Tyene's Mom: Logical choice, is a septa

Evidence against: not blonde

Rhaella Reasoning: Obligatory secret Targ

I'm telling ya, she's the Mad Maid...

[Chebyshov]

Septa Lemore Contenders and Pretenders (no particular order)

Ashara Dayne

Reasoning: Logical choice, Targ Loyalty, known to have given birth, dissappeared around the right time

Reasons against: striking purple eyes

Mellario: Evidence: Her leaving story is fishy

Wenda: Fits Thematically very well

Evidence Against: She'd have to have disappeared back when Jamie was 15

Tyene's Mom: Logical choice, is a septa

Evidence against: not blonde

Rhaella Reasoning: Obligatory secret Targ

This is such a hilariously reductive way to look at the "evidence against."

[Bael's Bastard]

Dany was never the original consort for fAegon. I think Team fAegon always wanted Arianne. And Mellario taking care of the young prince who will marry her precious daughter makes sense.

Mellario abandoning her young child(ren) to take care of someone who cannot be confirmed to be her husband's nephew, that her husband shows no sign of having any clue about the existence of, seems contradictory to everything stated about her. It makes no sense at all.

[corbon]

Lemore served in the GC given her comments revealing that she knew Myles Toyne.

Her comments do not indicate that she served in the GC, only that she clearly has met its leadership at some time. She may have served, but thats an unnecessary and rather extreme extrapolation.

Griff was serving in it, in a high position too. At that time he was not yet aware of fAegon. If Lemore was caring for fAegon from the start, then it is likely she would have visited Griff with the 5 year old boy and met the other leadership then - or perhaps they together visited her and fAegon at Illyrio's. There are many possiblilities.

One of them, but one not really indicated by her comments, is that she served in the GC as well (then who was caring for fAegon?). Her comments clearly read more naturally as Miles Toyne being known to her as Griff's associate, not her associate.

her connection with the Toynes is interesting, i had never thought of it before.

her referring to Myles Toyne as "YOUR friend" to Griff doesn't mean that she didn't know him, it could just mean she didn't like him, or, as Blackheart was prone to do, he put up a facade of cruelty that she never breached.

Thats possible too.

To me though it clearly reads as Miles was Griff's associate that she made some aqiuaintance with, not that she was a close associate of Miles but didn;t like him much.

Mellario abandoning her young child(ren) to take care of someone who cannot be confirmed to be her husband's nephew, that her husband shows no sign of having any clue about the existence of, seems contradictory to everything stated about her. It makes no sense at all.

Yes it does if one thinks more than the superficial. She's a stranger in a strange land, unhappy with her husband and her life. The only thing she has keeping her there is her children. When even that tie is shown to be powerless there is nothing to hold her any more. Its not abandoning Trystane and Arriane if she is powerless over their lives anyway...

The super-maternal mother figure is not the only option. And indeed, not a likely option given what we do know about her (woman full of life attracted to the exotic and impulsive enough to marry quickly and fairly shallowly).

As for bitterness, there is some, its not noted as an overwhleming trait or anything. What parent isn't a little bitter when the other gets to keep the kids all the time and they are powerless?

[James Crow]

Mellario abandoning her young child(ren) to take care of someone who cannot be confirmed to be her husband's nephew, that her husband shows no sign of having any clue about the existence of, seems contradictory to everything stated about her. It makes no sense at all.

It does if she's making sure the boy betrothed to her daughter grows up a caring and kind young lad.

[Amoracchius]

Mellario abandoning her young child(ren) to take care of someone who cannot be confirmed to be her husband's nephew, that her husband shows no sign of having any clue about the existence of, seems contradictory to everything stated about her. It makes no sense at all.

Especially when her husband then sent their eldest son halfway around the world to try to marry a different Targaryan with a weaker claim. If they knew of (f)Aegon, why not send Arianne to marry him (like she was meant to marry Viserys originally).

[Amoracchius]

It does if she's making sure the boy betrothed to her daughter grows up a caring and kind young lad.

But he's not betrothed to her daughter. Both (f)Aegon and Quentyn wanted to marry Dany.

[Ygrain]

Just little something that I hadn't realized previously: AFFC and ADWD were originally intended as one book, so, in fact, we have Wenda introduced in the ASOS epilogue and then Lemore is introduced in the "next" book, along with all the mentions of the Toynes and the Brotherhood.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Just little something that I hadn't realized previously: AFFC and ADWD were originally intended as one book, so, in fact, we have Wenda introduced in the ASOS epilogue and then Lemore is introduced in the "next" book, along with all the mentions of the Toynes and the Brotherhood.

Before that. In Storm:

- Ulmer mentions her when they are practising some archery (Sam)

- Arya mentions joining the Brotherhood, as Wenda did.

And there are ten mentions of the Brotherhood of the Kingswood (can't remember the name, I'm reading in Spanish now). Also, one of them is the one mentioning Barristan rescuing Lady Jeyne Swann and her septa, one of the probable identities of Wenda.

She's just casually mentioned here and there... like <----

[Ygrain]

Before that. In Storm:

- Ulmer mentions her when they are practising some archery (Sam)

- Arya mentions joining the Brotherhood, as Wenda did.

And there are ten mentions of the Brotherhood of the Kingswood (can't remember the name, I'm reading in Spanish now). Also, one of them is the one mentioning Barristan rescuing Lady Jeyne Swann and her septa, one of the probable identities of Wenda.

She's just casually mentioned here and there... like <----

I have a brief compilation of these in the OP, but what I meant specifically here is that she gets the spotlight in the epilogue, and then, boom! a secretive lady in white appears right in the next book. The division into AFFC and ADWD sort of muddied the connection, which might be why we get Merrett's burnt bum again in AFFC. IMHO, this duplicity suggests that this is somehow important.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I have a brief compilation of these in the OP, but what I meant specifically here is that she gets the spotlight in the epilogue, and then, boom! a secretive lady in white appears right in the next book. The division into AFFC and ADWD sort of muddied the connection, which might be why we get Merrett's burnt bum again in AFFC. IMHO, this duplicity suggests that this is somehow important.

Yep. It fits Martin's way to introduce characters.

1. "Ah, there was this guy called X"

2. "You know, there was a guy named X who did this and that"

3. "Hi, I'm Y... but I'm actually X in disguise".

[Ygrain]

Then I am hoping for this dialogue:

I am your father’s brother’s nephew’s cousin’s former roommate

So what does that make us?
Absolutely nothing.

[yolkboy]

Interesting that Barristan rescued a septa from the Kingswood Brotherhood...

Ser Barristan of House Selmy....

Rescued Lady Jeyne Swann and her septa from the Kingswood Brotherhood, defeating Simon Toyne

Could this Septa be Wenda / Lemore?

One thing to consider, who was Wenda before she was Wenda?

And interesting if this 'Septa' here was just using a disguise (that she might have continued with).

Jeyne Swann, like Ravella Swann would be an outlaw sympathizer of some sort.

[Bluetiger]

Interesting that Barristan rescued a septa from the Kingswood Brotherhood...

Ser Barristan of House Selmy....

Rescued Lady Jeyne Swann and her septa from the Kingswood Brotherhood, defeating Simon Toyne

Could this Septa be Wenda / Lemore?

One thing to consider, who was Wenda before she was Wenda?

And interesting if this 'Septa' here was just using a disguise (that she might have continued with).

Jeyne Swann, like Ravella Swann would be an outlaw sympathizer of some sort.

I agree with you. It must be somehow important.

Maybe Wenda escaped the whole event in disguise of Swann's septa.

We don't have any relations who killed her or arrested and it's weird.

If some knight would kill or capture her he would be famous....

[Mithras]

Interesting that Barristan rescued a septa from the Kingswood Brotherhood...

Ser Barristan of House Selmy....

Rescued Lady Jeyne Swann and her septa from the Kingswood Brotherhood, defeating Simon Toyne

Could this Septa be Wenda / Lemore?

One thing to consider, who was Wenda before she was Wenda?

And interesting if this 'Septa' here was just using a disguise (that she might have continued with).

Jeyne Swann, like Ravella Swann would be an outlaw sympathizer of some sort.

I think Jeyne Swann is more likely to be Lemore instead of her septa.

[Ygrain]

Interesting that Barristan rescued a septa from the Kingswood Brotherhood...

Ser Barristan of House Selmy....

Rescued Lady Jeyne Swann and her septa from the Kingswood Brotherhood, defeating Simon Toyne

Could this Septa be Wenda / Lemore?

One thing to consider, who was Wenda before she was Wenda?

And interesting if this 'Septa' here was just using a disguise (that she might have continued with).

Jeyne Swann, like Ravella Swann would be an outlaw sympathizer of some sort.

...and good old Barristan is exactly the type of guy to fall for the ruse of a damsel in distress.

[yolkboy]

I think Jeyne Swann is more likely to be Lemore instead of her septa.

yes that's another possibility for sure. And House Swann resides very close to the tourney Simon Toyne showed up in.

[Fire Eater]

I think Jeyne Swann is more likely to be Lemore instead of her septa.

Except I think she would have been returned to Stonehelm if she were a Swann, and how would Wenda hide her face? She would have been recognized.

[Musashisamurai]

While I mostly thought that Lemore=Lemore (just some septa that Varys could get sent to fAegon), I do like these similarities to Wenda. I never liked Ashara as Lemore, because then she would totally have mentioned Jon (unless, she really was in love with Ned, and Ned made her promise not too. Its also possible that Ashara and Lyanna grew close in Dorne. Certainly, they'd have something to relate to) and I like Ashara=Jyana better, makes more sense. (Especially with Arthur being linked to resurrection and waiting, in Avalon).

Thematically, someone pointed out Bloodraven and Varys. If Varys is a Blackfyre or a Blackfyre supporter, then theres even more parallels between Bloodraven, a Master of Whispers, for the Targs and a capable Hand of the king and schemer. Magician, thought to be able to see everything in the kingdom and said to be a sorcerer who warged crows/ravens. Bloodraven spent the better part of his "rule" dealing with Blackfyes. Varys is a Master of Whispers, who Catelyn believes is a sorcerer/magician (because he's able to find everyone in KL so easily), we know that Varys uses his "little birds" as spies, but unlike Bloodraven, is very likely actively seeking to end the Targ dynasty or replace them with Blackfyres.

The parallels between Ulmer/Wenda, Aemon/Haldon, and Jon/Aegon (especially if Jon is True and Aegon Fake) make the parallel even better.

But what better way for Aegon's rule to get challenged when Barristan or Jaime sees them, and is like, "Whoa, weren't you in the Kingswood Brotherhood? Me and my man Arthur Dayne fought you guys". If Lemore=Mellario, you would think Doran would tell Arianne that too "Hey, btw, when you meet someone who is supposedly your cousin, your mom is there." "So He's really my cousin and she was watching over him." "Nah, I have no clue why my wife went there." Really?