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Faydra

[Book Spoilers] Nitpick With Impunity

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Totally- his cousin openly asked how he could help Jaime escape. Jaime could have easily said..."Ok, I am going to pretend to choke you, and you play dead, and then when the guard comes in to check on you...." It made no sense why Jaime had to actually kill him when the dude just offered to help him escape. The guy was more than willing to play along with whatever escape scheme that Jaime had. He probably even would have taken one for the team and let Jaime escape while he stayed captured. He obviously idolized Jaime. It was a really stupid scene in many ways.

Totally forgot about this,this was in season two right?

It must be next to impossible to follow this show purely as a viewer?

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They are just hacks. And it's a real shame. In part I think the problem doesn't just lie with their lack of talent, it lies in the fact that they just do to much. I mean they wrote like eight out of ten episodes this year, directed an episode, did the general story outline and probably took care of a million other small things. I mean how is that even possible? When you look at Hannibal, a network show that has had only two seasons they have had like 14 writers!!!

They need to bring in more writers (especially a woman, because some of the things D&D write...) and burden themselves less. Let them run the show instead of getting their grubby hands on every piece of dialogue on this show. Next year, Cogman will write two episode, GRRM and their assistant one. Still, to much imo. Dumb&Dumber should limit themselves even further.

Seven Save Me, I hate that movie, but love the actors.

I'm sure part of them putting their grubby little fingers all over everything is because of how they loved the subject matter, but please.....share the love............with anyone!!!!!!! Share the load. I've come to the conclusion, love what I can (like time with PP as Oberyn for example) and then, reread. I do have fun with the show, but then there is everything that makes ya go...........hmmmmmmmmmmm.

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I just read a review from an Unsullied (for the non readers) and, well, he says that he really didn't feel the urgency of Oberyn to avenge his sister.

I kinda agree with this. I think that the show has done a poor work about introducing the background of certain characters that are gone but are important nevertheless. I know in this case is hard to portray conversations and analysis about Rhaegar Targaryen on screen, but they didn't even show him during Dany's visions, nor showed Elia and his baby. Rhaegar is probably the most named dead character of the whole story, including his family.

I don't doubt it. I'm sure it takes lots of rewatches for Unsullied to even get all the details the show bothers to give. We cling to them like gems sometimes, but they don't always know which details are important in the long run.

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If they eliminate Manderlay and "the North remembers" and everything about that chapter I will picket HBO myself.

So much depends on what hasn't been written yet, ya know? I tend to think that Bran isn't coming back from the far North and the Weirwood tree, which means it has to be Rickon on Skagos. But since we don't know what happens with Davos and Rickon...who knows.

I don't think there was a Wex, but they could make "Wex" any random IB or just have Davos go to White Harbor to get support from the Northern lords...where he will then learn that Bran and Rickon are alive.

Well, except that it won't be big news to anyone...since Jon will know it, so presumably Stannis will know it and around and around we go with the butterfly effect.

This, so much. 'The North remembers' is one of the best lines in the entire series, and that arc is really important. I can see them cutting Wex, but I think it's important for the show to show that there are Northerners still loyal to the Starks (apart from, you know, one small girl on Bear Island), and Manderlay and his revenge are a huge part of that. Their loyalty to the Starks is ancient. Plus, it's a good way to call back to the Red Wedding and it brings the Freys back into things.

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I don't doubt it. I'm sure it takes lots of rewatches for Unsullied to even get all the details the show bothers to give. We cling to them like gems sometimes, but they don't always know which details are important in the long run.

Agreed. I can say for certain that if I was watching the show without reading the books first I could care less about Jon's real parents (or it's relevance), who is or isn't a Targ, what happened between the Mountain, Elia and her children and about a dozen other details that us readers obsess over and analyze/speculate to death.

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I guess, I probably mentioned that just because I still can't get over it =D

But it's weird that they would talk about such things, with Jaime mentioning killing cousins, and he has not the slightest emotion showing. What they could have done maybe was Tyrion would actually bring killing cousins up, and Jaime goes pale, Tyrion would follow up by saying "Come on, you didn't actually kill a cousin of ours ?". It would have built up on the anger that Tyrion might feel towards him when Jaime tells him about Tysha (If that scene ever happens).

At least it would have given some point to this whole scene.

I think we might get the Tysha talk in episode 10.

Just rewatched the episode finally, and I think my main nitpicks are still.....entirely too much beetle time, entirely too little Viper time. Why am I now hearing Hammer Time in my head?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g93mz_eZ5N4&feature=kp

youre welcome.

Yeah, book! Jorah is very different in the scene than show! Jorah. But that's not really new with Jorah, I guess. However, I do wonder if the writers moved away from GRMM's version for a specific reason (outside of pretty actors having chemistry together so give them drama!)--like Jorah and Dany meeting again in WOW, ect.

Yeah Book!Jorah is different from Show!Jorah. Book!Jorah had a fucking fedora firmly planted on his dome. He was forcibly kissing Dany, demanding things of her, covered in back hair, and being an entitled shit head. I really dont blame them for changing him up to look more like an exiled knight who fell hopelessly in love with the woman he began serving, but him trying to keep quiet about it as long as she was happy. And spied on her in order to get home before he became utterly devoted to her. Show!Jorah > Book!Jorah in the eyes of the viewer and if he is to remain sympathetic, it was a necessary change. The fact that people were sympathetic to Book!Jorah gives me the fucking collywobbles. Ewww. The show wants us to root for Dany and Jorah and root for him to do something hella cool.

Good point. in fact, if you're a casual audience member who has not read the books, and all you've seen for the past few seasons now is Jorah doing his hardest to get Dany home and believes in her with his whole heart (his words!), would you even remember the deal he made with KL back in S1?

Nonsense. Most viewers remember it especially if reminded of it. There was a lot of "Ohhh Yeahh!! thats right!" going on.

They showed someone, his squire I assume, wiping the blade with a cloth which i took to be him putting poison on it. I doubt many unsullied viewers picked up on that and made the connection nor do I know if I would have had I not read the books.

The lack of credit people give show-only fans here really rustles my jimmies. My mum was all "that spear was poisoned..." because of how Oberyn was using it. Needed no help from me. Most of my unsullied friends actually assume the spear was poisoned. Hasnt Read The Books =/= Not Genre Savvy. <_<

Who am I kidding, I'm fairly certain the FakeArya ship has sailed.

Hehaha no.

In fact, im almost positive this is why Arya's identity is out in the open. The show didnt have a Jeyne Poole and everyone thought Arya was dead. But if there was an Arya Stark wandering around and people got wind of it, that would mean someone can just pull up an Arya Stark because "oh she was last seen near the Vale..." We all know Arya herself is going to wind up on a boat to Braavos, but in-universe, no one knows that. Littlefinger is like to get wind that an "Arya Stark" tried to knock on the door of the Vale. What will he do? Keep it from Sansa as much as he can, dig up some hapless poor girl to pose as Arya and give her to the Boltons. That way he can keep Sansa for himself and still profit from a new faction.

The plot point can still work. Its just gonna do so very differently.

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The lack of credit people give show-only fans here really rustles my jimmies.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I do try to imagine what it would be like to watch this myself as an "unsullied" when I think this sort of thing, which I admittedly do.

I'm not sure I'd be able to discern the 3 different Mountains as being the same character, fairly sure I'd have a patchy idea of the pre-show stuff except in its vague relationship to Jamie as "kingslayer." (I'd have to rewatch, I think, to get any of the names remembered), I'm not entirely sure I'd be paying much attention to the map in the opening credits or have much of an idea where everything is, etc. There are a lot of names thrown around in the show, lots of details and world-crafting, and I think I'd be pretty clueless about a lot of it if I hadn't read the books. I'm absolutely positive I wouldn't be as sharp as your mum & other pals about the poisoned spear.

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Totally forgot about this,this was in season two right?

It must be next to impossible to follow this show purely as a viewer?

Yes, it was season 2, when Jaime was Robb's captive before Catelyn released him. It does seem to be impossible for unsullied to follow. I avoid talking with them about the show sometimes, because all they seem to get out of it is "boobs, swords, cooool". They don't know half the characters' names, let alone remember their backstories. I overheard a conversation between some "diehard" fans of the show today at work...Bran was "the kid who got thrown from the tower because he saw those siblings having relations" and someone was like "did he die, I can't remember?". I don't even bother trying to explain if that's all they grasped so far.

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I can't speak for anyone else, but I do try to imagine what it would be like to watch this myself as an "unsullied" when I think this sort of thing, which I admittedly do.

I'm not sure I'd be able to discern the 3 different Mountains as being the same character, fairly sure I'd have a patchy idea of the pre-show stuff except in its vague relationship to Jamie as "kingslayer." (I'd have to rewatch, I think, to get any of the names remembered), I'm not entirely sure I'd be paying much attention to the map in the opening credits or have much of an idea where everything is, etc. There are a lot of names thrown around in the show, lots of details and world-crafting, and I think I'd be pretty clueless about a lot of it if I hadn't read the books. I'm absolutely positive I wouldn't be as sharp as your mum & other pals about the poisoned spear.

A lot of it has to do with the genre the show is in. Being genre savvy has a lot to do with people being able to put pieces together. I do agree that at times, the show feels fragmented. But if you know how most fantasy stories go and even political stories and stuff, you might be able to predict or at least get a good idea about how some stuff plays out. People have seen Fast Little Guy vs Big Immovable Fucker fights before and how the former often either tires out his opponent or just doesnt play fair and uses some other means. (what they didnt expect is for Oberyn to lose.) Thats why you have unsullied going "Well im sure the Mountain is toast anyway. Hes either gonna die from wounds or Oberyn poisoned the spear." Cuz lets face it, The Red Viper has "poison tactics" written all over him.

One of my unsullied friends, who is by all means, not the most attentive bloke in the world, predicted that Oberyn might not make it through the fight. He gets people's names mixed up all the damn time, but he remembers key plot points. One of my unsullied friends figured out R+L=J, however, he is not exactly typical. Hes into rewatching and pouring through the details finely. My mum also figured out R+L=J. Some of them are just in it for the ride and arent analyzing the show that deeply, but since they are familiar with various stories, seen a lot of movies, etc, they can catch on to stuff. (every one of my unsullied friends thinks Sansa's gonna end LF somehow. Some even speculate this season.)

Oh yeah, theres also that one unsullied question: "WHERE IS RICKON??" I think its interesting that they will remember Rickon. Even i forget about Rickon from time to time.

One of my favorite things about this show is that, now that Joff is toast, the unsullied fans i know will just be casually like "how about dat Ramsay, yo. Dat shit right dere. Maannn. There better be some fuckin' Jon Snow killin' his ass. I CANT GOOGLE BECAUSE SPOILERS AHHH!"

Makes me giggle.

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I definitely agree about the



"-Beetles


-Missendei/Grey Worm"



Not very worthy imo. Those scenes could have been removed to make more room to build up the duel. I am disappointed to not see a scene where Tyrion names the Red Viper as his champion and the Viper stands up and says it in front of a full court. I am also disappointed to not see the Red Viper and Tyrion more before the duel. The duel had that "alright, let's get this over with" feel to it. It needed a scene or 2 to build up.


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Maleficent appeared in the theaters friday and sunday Sansa gave homage. Wow the timing was superb. On thing I have been wondering about, it was'nt in this ep,, has'nt been anywhere, the death of Balon, or did I miss it. I remember where Mel drew the "Kings blood" for that one, perhaps it's performance anxiety, can't quite .........


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I really have hard time enjoying the show because of the all changes and additions. Not that there is nothing inherently wrong with them but they often feel just bad and pointless.


I hope that at some point I stop caring about the differences and just roll with it but until then I have to grind my teeth like Stannis.



Back in season 2 when Jaime killed his cousin I think that the one of the producers said in the Behind the Episode video that people needed to be reminded what kind of monster Jaime is (or something like that).


I feel like many of their interpretations of the characters are based on their first impression they never bothered to change or they are deviating for some other reason.


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A lot of it has to do with the genre the show is in. Being genre savvy has a lot to do with people being able to put pieces together. I do agree that at times, the show feels fragmented. But if you know how most fantasy stories go and even political stories and stuff, you might be able to predict or at least get a good idea about how some stuff plays out. People have seen Fast Little Guy vs Big Immovable Fucker fights before and how the former often either tires out his opponent or just doesnt play fair and uses some other means. (what they didnt expect is for Oberyn to lose.) Thats why you have unsullied going "Well im sure the Mountain is toast anyway. Hes either gonna die from wounds or Oberyn poisoned the spear." Cuz lets face it, The Red Viper has "poison tactics" written all over him.

One of my unsullied friends, who is by all means, not the most attentive bloke in the world, predicted that Oberyn might not make it through the fight. He gets people's names mixed up all the damn time, but he remembers key plot points. One of my unsullied friends figured out R+L=J, however, he is not exactly typical. Hes into rewatching and pouring through the details finely. My mum also figured out R+L=J. Some of them are just in it for the ride and arent analyzing the show that deeply, but since they are familiar with various stories, seen a lot of movies, etc, they can catch on to stuff. (every one of my unsullied friends thinks Sansa's gonna end LF somehow. Some even speculate this season.)

Oh yeah, theres also that one unsullied question: "WHERE IS RICKON??" I think its interesting that they will remember Rickon. Even i forget about Rickon from time to time.

One of my favorite things about this show is that, now that Joff is toast, the unsullied fans i know will just be casually like "how about dat Ramsay, yo. Dat shit right dere. Maannn. There better be some fuckin' Jon Snow killin' his ass. I CANT GOOGLE BECAUSE SPOILERS AHHH!"

Makes me giggle.

Right. I think the importance of this or that event, detail, or character is naturally going to be related to how much screen time they get. So in a way, things that a general TV audience would be liable to forget maybe aren't that big a deal anyway in the context of the show. I know only one other person who watches this, and probably the last thing he read in his life was Fox in Socks. I'm going to ask him tomorrow, "What happened to Rickon?" to see if he even knows what I'm talking about.

I'm pretty surprised at the reasoning for the poison spear. I would have figured most who consider Gregor to be finished would come to that conclusion from maybe the single eviscerating thrust Oberyn managed, which looked pretty close to what seppuku is supposed to be about, or maybe because of the overhead shot, where Gregor looks pretty clearly spent. One of the fan reaction vids that I watched on this had one of the viewers saying "So it's a draw!" LOL.

Anyway, I was just trying to say that - at least in my case - declarations of what show-only viewers likely can or can't understand or piece together is as much an indictment of what would be my own hypothetical savvy in putting all this stuff together as anyone else's, to allay the rustling of your jimmies a bit. It's not always a very judgmental or imperious thing from we all-knowing book people, I don't think. :)

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Jimmies firmly unruslted, mate. Some of the finer plot points would be tricky for me if i didnt read the books. But man i see some gnarly posts about how everyone who hasnt read the books is pretty damn dumb and dont really think about what they see. And the almighty book reader knows how to properly enjoy the series and everyone else is doing it wrong.



One thing is almost certain: unsullied fans who really get into this show always wind up getting the books and reading them anyway.


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