JonCon's Red Beard Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I tend to take Bran's version with a grain of salt, because Bran's version is probably just a rehash of Robert's version (victors write the history, etc.). But among the adults who were actually there and personally knew Rhaegar, none of them, including Ned, think of him as a rapist. Yeah, I don't believe he knows more than what he has heard (there quite the gossip around Winterfell). I've also suggest that the "real" version of whatever Lyanna did is somehow discouraged in the North, and taken as a cautionary tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I tend to take Bran's version with a grain of salt, because Bran's version is probably just a rehash of Robert's version (victors write the history, etc.). But among the adults who were actually there and personally knew Rhaegar, none of them, including Ned, think of him as a rapist. Agreed. The real story died on the Trident, at the Tower of Joy, and on the Sept of Baelor the Blessed. Only Howland Reed knows it now. *waits patiently for HR to enter the story* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerentiana_Zamora Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Only Howland Reed knows it now. *waits patiently for HR to enter the story* There could be a clue in the crypts. I am hoping this is how Jon finds out because I am tired of Merlin sorry Howland Reed showing up and telling Arthur sorry Jon Snow that he (Arthur sorry Jon Snow) is the son of King Utther Pendragon sorry Rhaegar Targareyan. My keyboard was stuck in traditional hero story mode. I have to get it fixed at somepoint. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 There could be a clue in the crypts. I am hoping this is how Jon finds out because I am tired of Merlin sorry Howland Reed showing up and telling Arthur sorry Jon Snow that he (Arthur sorry Jon Snow) is the son of King Utther Pendragon sorry Rhaegar Targareyan. My keyboard was stuck in traditional hero story mode. I have to get it fixed at somepoint. :) HAHAHAHAHAH point taken. I think there is a strong possibility of both happening. If Jojen does die (which I think he will) Howland entering the story for real makes sense. He may not TELL Jon that R+L = J, but he could direct Jon to seek it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegar I Targaryen Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 My keyboard was stuck in traditional hero story mode. I have to get it fixed at somepoint. :) You should, and you must never let it happen again. :whip: I do agree that there should be something in the crypts :thumbsup: Rhaegar's harp, anyone? That's an idea that gets tossed around and could be fitting. Rhaegar was, in many ways, defined by his silver stringed harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 You should, and you must never let it happen again. :whip: I do agree that there should be something in the crypts :thumbsup: Rhaegar's harp, anyone? That's an idea that gets tossed around and could be fitting. Rhaegar was, in many ways, defined by his silver stringed harp. Harp, marriage contract, or Rhaegar's marriage cloak? I read in another thread (sorry to the person who's name I am forgetting...) that they want R+L = J to be revealed durng a catabasis, which I really respond to. And it occurs to me that not all catabasis's are literal in that you must die, go the underworld, get information, and ascend. Granted Jon is dead (eh..sorta?) at the moment and so it could happen then, but i think I like a metaphorical catabasis better wherein Jon goes down to the crypts (the realm of the dead) and receives information found in Lyanna's tomb. He then climbs out of the crypt (the ascenion back to the mortal world) as a new man (in this case, knowing that he's the son of R and L). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenFire3 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Harp, marriage contract, or Rhaegar's marriage cloak? I read in another thread (sorry to the person who's name I am forgetting...) that they want R+L = J to be revealed durng a catabasis, which I really respond to. And it occurs to me that not all catabasis's are literal in that you must die, go the underworld, get information, and ascend. Granted Jon is dead (eh..sorta?) at the moment and so it could happen then, but i think I like a metaphorical catabasis better wherein Jon goes down to the crypts (the realm of the dead) and receives information found in Lyanna's tomb. He then climbs out of the crypt (the ascenion back to the mortal world) as a new man (in this case, knowing that he's the son of R and L). Yes, one of those archetypes structuring thousands of years of myths and literature, from Heracles in the Alcestis to Dante's Divine Comedy. We have several instances in ASoIaF: Bran's comatose awakening journey, Dany's HotU's aMAZEing trip, Tyrion's and Ned's tormented purgatory in the RK dungeons, Jamies' oneiric descent into the bowels of CR and into his own subconscious, Arya's conquering the lower levels ot THoBaW... Jon's descent (both in oneiric and physical form) into the crypts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost's Shadow Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Dragon egg, because if those old Kings are yelling at Jon himself, who is as much Stark as any other Stark child, then they haven't met me yet. That yelling is ridiculous. Take it out on the one who knelt, not an innocent child, if it is acutal Targ-hate, rather than dragon(egg) hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerentiana_Zamora Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Personally I want it to be a letter from Lyanna. Either to her yet unborn child if she had a feeling of doom before the birth, or specifically to Jon after his birth, when she knew she was about to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The other prince Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 You should, and you must never let it happen again. :whip: I do agree that there should be something in the crypts :thumbsup: Rhaegar's harp, anyone? That's an idea that gets tossed around and could be fitting. Rhaegar was, in many ways, defined by his silver stringed harp. I like the idea of Rhaegar's harp being there as well. I don't think that on it's own is enough for Jon to draw the conclusion that Rhaegar and Lyanna are his parents. There will need to be something else as well, either another item or he will also need someone to alreay put the idea there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The other prince Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Personally I want it to be a letter from Lyanna. Either to her yet unborn child if she had a feeling of doom before the birth, or specifically to Jon after his birth, when she knew she was about to die. This of course would work but I think it more likely it will be symbols rather then an actual letter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabrecmc Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I like the cloak idea b/c that doesn't just symbolize Targ, but marriage as well. As sweet as the harp would be, it doesn't indicate that R&L were married. Between Robb's will and the Tower of Joy, Howland Reed is clearly the Most Interesting Man in Westeros, but I also hope he doesn't just show up and exposition for us. It should be Jon's journey of discovery. I think GRRM is a good enough writer that we will get to see that. Just, ya know, sometime in the next 20 years here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I like the cloak idea b/c that doesn't just symbolize Targ, but marriage as well. As sweet as the harp would be, it doesn't indicate that R&L were married. Between Robb's will and the Tower of Joy, Howland Reed is clearly the Most Interesting Man in Westeros, but I also hope he doesn't just show up and exposition for us. It should be Jon's journey of discovery. I think GRRM is a good enough writer that we will get to see that. Just, ya know, sometime in the next 20 years here.... Yeah, I'd also like to learn from someone else than Howland Chekov :-) A couple (alright, maybe a bit more) thread ago I theorized that a partial revelation might take place if Ramsay decides to desecrate the Stark tombs before witnesses, to show the Bolton supremacy, and everyone's jaw drops at the sight of the Targ wedding cloak :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I like the cloak idea b/c that doesn't just symbolize Targ, but marriage as well. As sweet as the harp would be, it doesn't indicate that R&L were married. Between Robb's will and the Tower of Joy, Howland Reed is clearly the Most Interesting Man in Westeros, but I also hope he doesn't just show up and exposition for us. It should be Jon's journey of discovery. I think GRRM is a good enough writer that we will get to see that. Just, ya know, sometime in the next 20 years here.... Howland being exposition man would be a let down but I don't think GRRM will go that route. I do think Howland might set Jon on the journey; something he says might cause Jon to investigate for himself. Has Jon ever gone to the crypts himself? I can see him keeping his distance as a boy because he knew he wasn't a Stark, so he stayed clear of the Stark resting place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Harp, marriage contract, or Rhaegar's marriage cloak? I read in another thread (sorry to the person who's name I am forgetting...) that they want R+L = J to be revealed durng a catabasis, which I really respond to. And it occurs to me that not all catabasis's are literal in that you must die, go the underworld, get information, and ascend. Granted Jon is dead (eh..sorta?) at the moment and so it could happen then, but i think I like a metaphorical catabasis better wherein Jon goes down to the crypts (the realm of the dead) and receives information found in Lyanna's tomb. He then climbs out of the crypt (the ascenion back to the mortal world) as a new man (in this case, knowing that he's the son of R and L).This is what I think. I don't believe he is dead in the literal sense, but I do think he is in a transformative state where he may "dream" of a "beautiful, highborn woman with kind eyes and dark hair, as well as a silver-haired man with rubies for eyes, having a similar experience to Danys House of visions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Dragon egg, because if those old Kings are yelling at Jon himself, who is as much Stark as any other Stark child, then they haven't met me yet. That yelling is ridiculous. Take it out on the one who knelt, not an innocent child, if it is acutal Targ-hate, rather than dragon(egg) hate.Maybe they aren't really yelling at him, and Jon is reacting to his fear of a nightmare, and not understanding the full extent of their message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Yeah, I'd also like to learn from someone else than Howland Chekov :-) A couple (alright, maybe a bit more) thread ago I theorized that a partial revelation might take place if Ramsay decides to desecrate the Stark tombs before witnesses, to show the Bolton supremacy, and everyone's jaw drops at the sight of the Targ wedding cloak :-)That would be a beautiful moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Yeah, I'd also like to learn from someone else than Howland Chekov :-) A couple (alright, maybe a bit more) thread ago I theorized that a partial revelation might take place if Ramsay decides to desecrate the Stark tombs before witnesses, to show the Bolton supremacy, and everyone's jaw drops at the sight of the Targ wedding cloak :-) That would be awesome! To me though, I feel like the reveal must be made in front of the right people. If Ramsay saw something like that he would just cover it up, but IMO, if someone like Stannis found Rhaegar's harp or cloak in her tomb he would realize its importance and would not try to just cover it up or destroy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegar I Targaryen Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Maybe they aren't really yelling at him, and Jon is reacting to his fear of a nightmare, and not understanding the full extent of their message. We could avoid all this confusion if he were to take a trip to the Tully's resting place, then compare the two. Even the Blackfish doesn't like Jon! :dunce: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 We could avoid all this confusion if he were to take a trip to the Tully's resting place, then compare the two. Even the Blackfish doesn't like Jon! :dunce:It's not Tullys Jon is dreaming of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.