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R+L=J v.83

Angalin

By Angalin,
in General (ASoIaF)

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Alia of the knife Council Member

Alia of the knife

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Or maybe they are both equally important. After all this is the Song of Ice AND Fire. And I'm happy to ejoy it in a very omnicomprensive way, as such a complex, multi-layered piece of narrative deserves. Martin's writing itself is quite bipolar, one moment focused on the northern storylines and another (like... right now lol) very much focused on the fiery Targaryen ones (cough * Daemon the UberTarg * cough). Thanks the Gods (the old and the new ones) ;)

I definitely agree with your analysis, with the exception of the Targaryens. I actually came away from tPatQ even less interested and slightly turned off by them, likely keeping my distance in the country if I were a Westerosi noble.

Maybe it's because it's told from the standpoint of a third person. and I would still read about them, if nothing else to have some understanding of the other Houses and how they interacted with them

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Alia of the knife Council Member

Alia of the knife

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Really? TPaTQ made me even more interested in the Targaryens.

All of the Houses have their issues, their evil members, and dark chapters of the past. But the Targs always get maligned.

I've never gotten the impression they are all that maligned. For myself, I just wouldn't want to fly too close to the flame.

(I feel that way about my own Corporate bosses).

And I'm pretty sure I'm going to feel the same way about the Starks if we find out to be true what I suspect about their back story.

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J. Stargaryen Council Member

J. Stargaryen

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It depends how you look at it. Was the question of Jon Snow's mother asked because it was important in itself or because it was a good test of how serious Benioff and Weiss really were? The answer isn't difficult to figure out if you do know the books, but the lack of reference to the question in the show is going to make things very difficult for the unsullied, by contrast with the way the white walkers have been kept in the public eye as it were.

This has implications for what R+L=J really means. If, as most on this thread believe, what's important is that Jon is the son of Rhaegar then we're going to need some pretty powerful twisting and turning which in the end is effectively going to be boiled down to "with one bound Jack was free..."

On the other hand if, given the emphasis on the white walkers and whatever else might lie beyond the wall, its more important to the outcome that Jon is the son of Lyanna and is indeed the son of Winterfell Maester Aemon declared him to be, then that is much more consistent with the treatment of this aspect of the story thus far.

Oh, here we go again. Black Troll is back.

As for the show, there's been a handful of R+L=J hints. From Ned promising to tell Jon about his mother the next time they see each other before going their separate ways on the Kingsroad, to the stained glass windows complete with a blue flower/rose in the throne room, to the cheeky 'R' and 'L' carved next to each other on a wooden beam at Castle Black during Ser Alliser's speech about the cold to Jon and Sam.

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JonCon's Red Beard Council Member

JonCon's Red Beard

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Oh, here we go again. Black Troll is back.

As for the show, there's been a handful of R+L=J hints. From Ned promising to tell Jon about his mother the next time they, before going their separate ways on the Kingsroad, to the stained glass complete with a blue flower/rose in the throne room, to the cheeky 'R' and 'L' carved next to each other on a wooden beam at Castle Black during Ser Alliser's speech about the cold to Jon and Sam.

WAIT... WA??

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J. Stargaryen Council Member

J. Stargaryen

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I took 2 caps, one has the =J kind of visible, the other, I couldn't see.

RL

http://i.imgur.com/P8yIZyD.jpg

RL

=J

http://i.imgur.com/RRrWqHS.jpg

I can't really make those out. Can you illuminate them?

Here is the cap I got. It's not the greatest, but you can make out the R and L - link.

ETA: Here is an illuminated version of the second cap - link.

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BearQueen87 Council Member

BearQueen87

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This scene is really early in the GoT series, too. Long before it became the mega hit it is today. This was when it was either curious folks watching or book lovers (ratings for that episoe= 2.45 million; compared to 6.95 a few years later for 404). To put that there when no one outside of book fantatics suspected R+L = J is telling.



Thanks for the images, both of you. It's pretty amazing.


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J. Stargaryen Council Member

J. Stargaryen

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It's hard to see the =J part, I edited my post with the illuminated caps to your suggestion.

I ubber lightened it, and it's not really clear. But the RL is quite obvious D:

Okay, thanks. I think I can make out a J, but I don't see any = sign. But anyway, the R & L right behind Jon is already enough. I wonder how the R+L=/=J crowd will try to dismiss that one. Another red herring!!111

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BearQueen87 Council Member

BearQueen87

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I ubber lightened it, and it's not really clear. But the RL is quite obvious D:

ETA: http://i.imgur.com/5jy9OPz.jpg

The = J is hard to see, but the RL and the fact that Jon Snow is standing right there is a giant neon sign. :)

(this revelation has made my night)

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