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Why would the Highlords of Westeros declare for Jon?


Lee-Sensei

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The Targs were always perceived as foreigners in Westeros. This prejudice will surely increase with Aegon's/Dany's armies mainly made up of foreigners. These people aren't stupid. If Dany/Aegon win then present generals will end up Lords, present officers will end up knights and guess who will lose lands?

Also the Targs hasn't left in good terms. Dany/Aegon may understand that the Mad King was, well, mad but they would certainly not understand the outrageous violence towards their family especially since Aegon the conquerer was good to these 'savages', allowing them to keep their lands and titles. Dany/Aegon may close an eye towards the former allies such as the Tyrells and Martels IF they bend the knee at an early stage. They may also forgive the Starks too (Lyanna kidnapped, Brandon burned etc). However I doubt that they will show any kindness to the Baratheons and the Lannisters.

every sentence your wrote drips with bias
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They dont need to. If Jon takes the IT - and thats a big if(since I believe it wont exist at the end) then it will be by strength of arms.

As it stands currently he does not want to be King or Lord however if something happens to change that and he decides to leave the NW and become King himself then the North will rally to him and so will the Riverlords(currently they are being ruled by the Freys and I think if Jon swoops down from the North and burns down the Twins then the riverlords will happily take him as King just like they took Robb - not to mention the will which they signed).

I'm pretty sure Sansa can bring the Vale around, especially if she turns into LF 2.0(seems likely). With the strength of 3 Kingdoms at his back and the south weakened after dealing with Euron/Aegon/Danny Jon might easily take them on.

Of course there is a crackpot theory that Jon will lead the Others against Danny and her dragons(the battle she sees in her dream) and whoever wins gets the IT.

What if, for argument's sake, after becoming increasingly frustrated with IT candidates who know nothing of winter, they turn to Jon out of sheer desperation for a non-Southron Fool who has a clue about how to deal with winter? Jon was elected to the Watch as a compromise candidate (where his training and bastard status played equal part in getting him elected). And when Alys thought Stannis was a goner, she appealed to Jon as the last hope they had, since she thought there would be no one left to turn to. I think there's a plausible case that he he could be accepted as the de facto leader due to a dearth of other suitable candidates, especially ones with a clue about winter, and that it might not come down to a battle of force. That doesn't necessarily mean he'd be the one sitting the throne at the end exactly, but it's a plausible way he could get there I think (assuming winter reaches the South and becomes their problem too).

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What if, for argument's sake, after becoming increasingly frustrated with IT candidates who know nothing of winter, they turn to Jon out of sheer desperation for a non-Southron Fool who has a clue about how to deal with winter? Jon was elected to the Watch as a compromise candidate (where his training and bastard status played equal part in getting him elected). And when Alys thought Stannis was a goner, she appealed to Jon as the last hope they had, since she thought there would be no one left to turn to. I think there's a plausible case that he he could be accepted as the de facto leader due to a dearth of other suitable candidates, especially ones with a clue about winter, and that it might not come down to a battle of force. That doesn't necessarily mean he'd be the one sitting the throne at the end exactly, but it's a plausible way he could get there I think (assuming winter reaches the South and becomes their problem too).

the south does experience winter just not in the same coimpascety the north does and I doubt the north will have enough sway over the south to dictate who rules the whole kingdom. Jon would need support there too
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I now have a vision of a Great Council being sorta a repeat of Jon's surprise election for the LC. After the fit hit the shan and white walkers started doing serious mischief over the whole realm. After Jon Snow's pedigree came out, although with ever-lingering doubt whether he's Rhaegar's trueborn son or Rhaegar's bastard. Jon would be one of candidates under consideration, yet way down on everyone's list due to the lack of political muscle. The council might be held in Oldtown, and with Samwell Tarly reprising his role as kingmaker - or maybe this time it'll be Sansa. With, say, Lord Arryn (Robert? Harry?) and Lord Tyrell, or maybe Lord Martell, in deadlock, and some outsider asshole (Euron?) gaining momentum.


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the south does experience winter just not in the same coimpascety the north does and I doubt the north will have enough sway over the south to dictate who rules the whole kingdom. Jon would need support there too

How do you know that the winter in the South won't consist of Others and wights running around, widespread starvation and death?

I mentioned nothing about the North dictating anything to the South. Specifically, if the conditions in the South become so egregious between stupid civil wars between candidates for the IT and apocalypse, why wouldn't people (smallfolk and sensible lords alike) look for a leader who actually has a clue about winter to defend the one thing they all share a common interest in (i.e. survival through winter)? For precedent, it looks like this might have been Mance's strategy behind becoming king; the wildlings lost hope of survival when he was defeated. It kind of sets up the idea of people accepting de facto leadership over the issue of winter. Stannis is currently running on this campaign as well.

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They dont need to. If Jon takes the IT - and thats a big if(since I believe it wont exist at the end) then it will be by strength of arms.

As it stands currently he does not want to be King or Lord however if something happens to change that and he decides to leave the NW and become King himself then the North will rally to him and so will the Riverlords(currently they are being ruled by the Freys and I think if Jon swoops down from the North and burns down the Twins then the riverlords will happily take him as King just like they took Robb - not to mention the will which they signed).

I'm pretty sure Sansa can bring the Vale around, especially if she turns into LF 2.0(seems likely). With the strength of 3 Kingdoms at his back and the south weakened after dealing with Euron/Aegon/Danny Jon might easily take them on.

Of course there is a crackpot theory that Jon will lead the Others against Danny and her dragons(the battle she sees in her dream) and whoever wins gets the IT.

Agree with everything.

Gotta link to that theory? I would be interested in reading it.

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The old lords will die in the winter and there will be a new generation of lords. New great lords will be mostly child lords (Bran/Sweetrobin/Trystane/Shireen) or some old and wise men (Rodrik Harlaw, Gerion Lannister). I also expect Sam to appear as an important figure in the Reach (both from his birth and his status as a member of the NW and the Citadel).



My guess is that Sam will lead the Great Council (secretly of course) and he will be the Kingmaker of Jon. From legal perspective, Sam has no right to do this but he will see that Jon is the only leader who can rebuild the Wall and return the glory of the NW and at the same time unite the Realm and resolve the conflicting claims, especially by marrying Shireen. Perhaps this was the same game played by Aemon. Although he knew that he had no right, he saw Egg as the only choice for the greater good of the Realm and plotted to make him the king.


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The Targs were always perceived as foreigners in Westeros. This prejudice will surely increase with Aegon's/Dany's armies mainly made up of foreigners. These people aren't stupid. If Dany/Aegon win then present generals will end up Lords, present officers will end up knights and guess who will lose lands?

Also the Targs hasn't left in good terms. Dany/Aegon may understand that the Mad King was, well, mad but they would certainly not understand the outrageous violence towards their family especially since Aegon the conquerer was good to these 'savages', allowing them to keep their lands and titles. Dany/Aegon may close an eye towards the former allies such as the Tyrells and Martels IF they bend the knee at an early stage. They may also forgive the Starks too (Lyanna kidnapped, Brandon burned etc). However I doubt that they will show any kindness to the Baratheons and the Lannisters.

"Forgive the Starks"? For what? Having most of their family killed off by horrible means and losing their lands to the likes of Bolton? Unless I've misunderstood the books, it's pretty obvious most people, and the North especially, feel very sympathetic to the Starks' loss of family and situation.

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How do we know if Gerion is wise and how he could become the Lord?

It is a theory. He seems like a nice guy from Tyrion’s memories. It is speculated that he might be the Corsair King that keeps popping out often. If so, he should be hardened and wisened during his life as an exile pirate king. We see a similar development in JonCon. I think Gerion will be the future Lord Lannister.

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Why would Jon want to be king in the first place?

He's from Winterfell and shall stay in the north as the warden of the north in my opinion.

I don't think it's a matter of 'want', I think it's more a matter of 'the kingdom is in trouble and I'm needed'. He doesn't want to be a leader...but he is one, and he's a good one- merciful but not weak, and capable of bringing unlikely people together. He can barter and find a middle ground, and doesn't let old grievances cloud his judgment. He didn't want to be Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, but he accepted the position and made the most of it...he would do so as King, too. It wouldn't be a fairy tale ending for him if he ended up on the IT, because it's a hard and lonely job, which is something I think most people are forgetting.

I think he would rather be Warden of the North, but I don't think he would turn down the IT based on what he wants.

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The highest position that I see for Jon is as the King of the North. Whereas Martells, Tyrells, Lannisters would have a hard time accepting Jon (even if is revealed that Jon is a Targaryen, a lot of people will not believe it), the North would be much happier putting someone in charge with Stark blood who saved them from the Others. I also think it is unlikely that Westeros will be a unified kingdom by Series end. I dont think Dany will sit the IT by series end, but if she does, I could see her giving dominion of the North to her Nephew Jon.


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With the support of some great Lord.



''There was no clear heir after Maekar’s death. Brynden Rivers himself led the Great Council that chose Aegon V the Unlikely. (though he soon departed for the wall with Aegon’s older brother Maester Aemon. Bloodraven may not have been forced to take the black). Gerold Lannister the Golden was said to be key in swaying things towards Aegon V.''



from A World of Ice and Fire reading.


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It is a theory. He seems like a nice guy from Tyrion’s memories. It is speculated that he might be the Corsair King that keeps popping out often. If so, he should be hardened and wisened during his life as an exile pirate king. We see a similar development in JonCon. I think Gerion will be the future Lord Lannister.

I do believe that he would be a nice guy but a wise guy?

As for him becoming the Lord he comes before only Genna and her *Frey* spawns:

Jaime-Tyrion-Cersei-Joffrey -Tommen-Myrcella-Kevan - Lancel-Willem -Martyn-Janei-Tygett-Tyrek(?)-Gerion***-Genna-Cleos-Tywin "Ty"-Willem-Lyonel-Tion-"Red" Walder

For now: Cersei, Tommen, Myrcella, Lancel, Martyn and Janei are before him. Do you believe that all of them will die?

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Why not?

Then we will make new lords goes the saying.

If the realm goes as completely to crap as i hope, ala WW butchering the halls of Casterly Rock and the Reach, the people who would've selfishly stood in the way will mostly be dead.

Who in this mostly depleted westeros that remains would dare gainsay the warrior with the flaming sword, who saved the realm from complete destruction?

Cliche, but tolerable.

Of course, going by Martin, the main brunt of this invasion will be felt by only the north and Riverlands, and the greater southern realm will be completely spared.

A final push of Stark buggery, if you will.

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I don't think Jon's Targaryen ancestry is going to used as a method for the Lords of Westeros top rally behind to put him on the Iron Throne.



Instead, Jon being the legal son of Rhaegar and Lyanna will do 4 things for him:


1) It will in essence make him the Prince that was Promised


2) It will give him the ability to ride Dragons


3) it will give him the credentials to be a good candidate to marry Daenerys


4) Give him the support of the North as Lyanna's son.


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A king playing favorites doesn't exactly make breaking news. I think it's what more or less every real king in the history of the world did, and quite a lot fictional ones, too (well, maybe not Aragorn or Random of Amber). That's the natural state of things.

If Edmure wants to be restored as Lord of the Riverlands, he'll need their support. That's easier when they like him. Picking favorites doesn't automatically mean civil war, divide and conquer is actually a great strategy.

You guys sure of that? If edmure is a friend of lord blackwood, don't you think lord braken would have a problem with that? what happens if their s a dispute and continually choose blackwood over bracken. And expand that for countless other lords as he obviously wouldn't be friends with all of them. You still think there wont be trouble?

Besides that's one of my points, he is nowhere near as experienced or able as his father. He had one victory and that was when the terrain was in his favour and against the strategy of his king. Believe it or not I think people give him a hard time that said the criticism he receives isn't exactly unwarranted.

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I don't think Jon's Targaryen ancestry is going to used as a method for the Lords of Westeros top rally behind to put him on the Iron Throne.

Instead, Jon being the legal son of Rhaegar and Lyanna will do 4 things for him:

1) It will in essence make him the Prince that was Promised

2) It will give him the ability to ride Dragons

3) it will give him the credentials to be a good candidate to marry Daenerys

4) Give him the support of the North as Lyanna's son.

:agree:

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