sj4iy Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 5. Someone else covered this well, but I'll just add that we don't know for sure if he intends to suicide kill Mance just because he says so to Sam. Perhaps he feels like he is the only one who can parley with Mance since he knows him (ordered to in the books). So he'll try to get Mance to agree to some sort of truce, by time for the wall to recoup their losses, and try to assassinate Mance if all else fails. It's a desperate play no doubt, but as he says the will all die either way so it's a chance worth taking. I think he will listen to what Mance has to say, but I don't think it will alter his plans to try and kill him if he gets the chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wunhopkuendo Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I think he will listen to what Mance has to say, but I don't think it will alter his plans to try and kill him if he gets the chance. Perhaps, but we will most likely never know as Stannis will come in and save the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Perhaps, but we will most likely never know as Stannis will come in and save the day. Well, we know they talk, because Mance says that he plans on killing every Crow in CB. Then we also see a shot of someone with a knife to Jon's throat, which could mean several things, although none of them good XD In any case, I can't wait to see all of it come to fruition, it's damn exciting :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxWolfox Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I do love that picture. Now, just imagine if they'd actually fleshed out all of those characters. Hmmmmmm, perhaps I should take this picture to the Nitpick thread. I'm sure I could use a good rant about that, ehhhhh, maybe tomorrow or after the season ends. I do just love that picture and want to enjoy it. As for Edd, I'm just going to fanwank that the smile is from his one bout of optimism in the books, he was thinking he'd be lucky enough to die before they figured out a way to put his corpse back to work. LOL ;) :lmao: A picture of that smile right beside every single one of his quotes: Edd the troll! :lol: Six important characters are pretty good to wrap up the remainder of the season (beyond the sea you have Dany, Barristan, Missandei, Grey Worm, Daario, Jorah, and possibly Hizdahr; Arya's storyline only has two important people; Stannis really only has himself, Melisandre, Davos, Shireen, and Selyse; Sansa, Petyr, and Robin are holding down the Vale story alone for the most part...).I think later they will reintroduce Mance Rayder though and possibly some other members of his court like Val if they decide to use that character. I also think that Alliser's bigger role in this episode was a good move too since it kind of showed him in a fairly positive light leading the main sortie against the wildlings and delivering three inspirational speeches in about two minutes.His scenes/lines certainly underlined his passion when defending the Night's Watch and the Wall for the non-book-readers. This makes the speculation that he will assume Bowen Marsh's role all that more interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maid So Fair Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Cons: 1. They could have shaved off a few minutes from the extensive Sam-in-love discussions, so the actual battle could be 3 or 4 minutes longer. I might be a minority when it comes to this but I actually feel that the episode might have benefited from LESS battle scenes and more character drama (maybe not necessarily Sam and Gilly). Specifically more scenes with NW members apart from Jon and Sam and I was really really hoping for Mance. There were a number of really epic shots/fights like Thorne v Tormund, Jon v Styr, the see-saw and the giants in general, but I found many of the other battle scenes somewhat confusing, with a lot of similar-looking extras hacking at each other in the dark. The wildfire explosion in Blackwater was sufficiently impressive but it were the character interactions that really made that episode for me. But to each their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Am I the only one who hopes that Martin finds a way to work the scythe into the book storyline? XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Am I the only one who hopes that Martin finds a way to work the scythe into the book storyline? XD Nope. Im with ya there. I think the reason why Mance lit a big ass fire is two-fold. To scare the piss out of the Watch, but also to keep the Others/White Walkers out of fray. At least the wights. By having a huge fire at his back, he protects the wildlings who fall in battle from turning into wights and remember, this is the reason why Mance is fighting anyway. To get away from those guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Nope. Im with ya there. I think the reason why Mance lit a big ass fire is two-fold. To scare the piss out of the Watch, but also to keep the Others/White Walkers out of fray. At least the wights. By having a huge fire at his back, he protects the wildlings who fall in battle from turning into wights and remember, this is the reason why Mance is fighting anyway. To get away from those guys. That's exactly what I thought, too. If he has all of those people, he will need a big-ass fire to protect them from the WW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Yeah its kinda common sense (as much as one can have in this 'verse) to take measures when you know theres gonna be a lot of dead people going on. This is likely the reason i have not seen astute viewers question why there was a massive fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber W Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 ^ That's why I thought Mance lit the fire too. Although I did wonder why it took people so long to see it - doesn't it take time to get such a big-ass fire going? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Ill chalk that one up to being TV/FIlm Logic. One does not see something spelling out impending doom until its already happened/happening. B: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Nope. Im with ya there. I think the reason why Mance lit a big ass fire is two-fold. To scare the piss out of the Watch, but also to keep the Others/White Walkers out of fray. At least the wights. By having a huge fire at his back, he protects the wildlings who fall in battle from turning into wights and remember, this is the reason why Mance is fighting anyway. To get away from those guys. And, on top, it cuts the main avenue of retreat for his "army", lowering the chances of a routing. ^ That's why I thought Mance lit the fire too. Although I did wonder why it took people so long to see it - doesn't it take time to get such a big-ass fire going? Rule of cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le_pounce Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I think the reason why Mance lit a big ass fire is two-fold. To scare the piss out of the Watch, but also to keep the Others/White Walkers out of fray. At least the wights. By having a huge fire at his back, he protects the wildlings who fall in battle from turning into wights and remember, this is the reason why Mance is fighting anyway. To get away from those guys. Wasn't it a signal to the guys south of the wall to attack? Or did they coordinate some other way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Bean Corbray Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Am I the only one who hopes that Martin finds a way to work the scythe into the book storyline? XD Hope? Nay, I INSIST on it. And Edd needs to order its deployment, too. [Team Scythe FTW] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Hope? Nay, I INSIST on it. And Edd needs to order its deployment, too. [Team Scythe FTW] We should totally start a petition. Too bad the $20k "be a character in my book" thing is over, because I would have loved for someone to buy a spot for the scythe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Bean Corbray Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 We should totally start a petition. Too bad the $20k "be a character in my book" thing is over, because I would have loved for someone to buy a spot for the scythe. I'm already committed to ensuring/demanding Mace's Handthrone makes Season 5 in any case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Wasn't it a signal to the guys south of the wall to attack? Or did they coordinate some other way? You know...that could also be a reason for the fire. If you really think about it, its pretty practical and kinda clever. I'm already committed to ensuring/demanding Mace's Handthrone makes Season 5 in any case. hue! I do hope it makes it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maid So Fair Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) I thought the fire was just a show nod to the 'I'm going to light the biggest fire the north has ever seen' line, but I really like the idea of having it as a defence against the white walkers! If we can't have Mance at least we can have his epic one-liners! Edited June 12, 2014 by Maid So Fair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Edmure Tully Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 The fire was the signal for Tormund et al to attack, as discussed in 3x04.But the WW idea is a cool added bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boojam Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 The fire was the signal for Tormund et al to attack, as discussed in 3x04. But the WW idea is a cool added bonus. I like the idea too, tho as in the books , only by inference on the show, the Others seem to have only 'pickets' Wights (some Others minders?) out and about that far south , that is at the Wall. On the other hand Mance Nation's biggest problem is really The Others harassing its edges. (The impression given in the books is that The Others are not going to put on their BIG MOVE until WINTER HAS COME, on the show Winter has been kind of wimpy so far, in the books it's more of a 'in-your-face' harbinger , tho even George is still vague about just what's going to happen and when, it seems close.) By the by the logical thing Mance could have done is to have negotiated with the NW about a peaceful migration to behind the Wall , to which price he would have to pay would be to be peacefull and using his troops to man the all the abandoned forts along the Wall, which is what happens eventually. But as in the books and on the show Mance is full of wrath (I am never sure why) and vainglory (I am never sure why) and the Wildlings are in a froth and don't think rationally about what's a common enemy. Sort of an analog of the Native American , tho it's not clear to me that the north would not have made an 'arrangement' with them if they had of been promised to be peaceful. The non-cultured (so to speak) northern 'tribes' don't seem a lot different from the freefolk. There had my say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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