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Why didn't they have Ghost out as soon as the Wildlings came inside, or earlier? And why isn't Jon taking him along on his mission to kill Mance?

He better. I was thinking that as well. Ghost should be by his side.

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Agreed about the battle. Stannis's arrival will probably seem not so special anymore. For TV viewers the way this episode ended felt like the Wildlings had lost. The Wall is already saved.

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How are they possibly going to conclude all the plots in the 45 minutes of show they're doing this year?

The finale will be 65 minutes

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We know that happens, however, had Jon gone earlier in the episode to meet with Mance and then thy ended the episode with Stannis arrival it would have made the episode overall much better.

I agree other things made up for it; I am happy Sam got some happiness for one. Sad that they killed off other characters, next week should be quite awesome I hope since this one was so short.

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There's no way they can fit Jon's election into the next episode with everything else that has to happen, especially if were getting an off book Jaime/Cersei sex scene as the preview seemed to hint.


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So ... why was Ghost locked up all this time?

Alliser had him chained when they returned from Crasters

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Yes, we know Stannis gets there next week.

AFTER THE BATTLE.

"Oh, the watch was fighting and dying and Stannis just arrived? Fuck him".

That's the impression it will get.

D&D, Ok, we got the indirect pretty clear: you hate Stannis.

This

The people saying "calm your tits" are just as bad as the extremists.

It's pretty damn logical to conclude that his 'big moment' (turning point for his character) will be degraded. The finale has too many exciting/climatic scenes and "stannis stannis STANNIS" won't even make the top 3.

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Mance made his position clear, though, that neither he nor his people would be bending the knee to a southern king or obeying their laws. An agreement didn't seem likely to be reached at all.

I think Mance's line in the preview 'I'm going to kill every man at Castle Black' demonstrates that no agreement has been made in the show either.

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This

The people saying "calm your tits" are just as bad as the extremists.

It's pretty damn logical to conclude that his 'big moment' (turning point for his character) will be degraded. The finale has too many exciting/climatic scenes and "stannis stannis STANNIS" won't even make the top 3.

the people saying calm your tits are worse, anyone that uses this phrase is probably up past their bedtime anyway.

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Also, confirmed D&D are going to make it look like the Night's Watch did all the work and Stannis showed up to take all the glory.



Really close to dropping the show after this season. Stannis is all we have to go with cardboard (in terms to the actors) Jon Snow and blank-expression Dany, and if the added scenes are any indication of what we're going to get once D&D take over material after passing up the books... it's not going to be pretty.



Again, missed opportunity to deliver Stannis's finest moment. I watch the show with my father and he thinks Stannis is a shit commander who got his ass kicked at the Blackwater and that's it. Was so excited for tonight for him to see why I love the character... and then we get the credits six minutes early.


Edited by Gladiator of Dorne

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This

The people saying "calm your tits" are just as bad as the extremists.

It's pretty damn logical to conclude that his 'big moment' (turning point for his character) will be degraded. The finale has too many exciting/climatic scenes and "stannis stannis STANNIS" won't even make the top 3.

My thoughts too

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GIANTS RIDING MAMMOTHS, Tormund Giantsbane fighting Alliser Thorne in single combat, giants shooting gigantic arrows at people..... but the episode was the worst because King Stannis doesn't arrive until next week? lmao

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What, no Stanis this episode?

Stanis, playing the role of Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Film. Bullshit. I waited for the entire episode for Stanis to save it all. Still don't like the guy, but come the fuck on D&D!!! Show him some respect.

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Stannis is one of my favorite characters, but I don't see how he could have appeared in this episode without rushing the battle. That doesn't mean the cliffhanger didn't suck though.



That said, I wasn't thrilled with the episode. Season 4 hasn't spent much time developing the Night's Watch and the scenes that did take place at the Wall were a mixed bag. I don't see how casual show watchers would care about Pyp and Grenn dying; why couldn't the showrunners have developed some of Jon's buddies instead of pointless Sam/Gilly scenes? Ygritte did noting but massacre people this season and all of her best material happened last season. Her death was ok, but I didn't like that Jon abandoned the battle to cradle her dead body. He's a professional, isn't he? Not some schoolboy. Ygritte's death should have been in the aftermath of the battle.



Blackwater was the culmination of narratives that had been building for the whole season; the Watchers on the Wall did not have the same momentum. The execution was fine, but we can see great battle scenes in any episode. My favorite parts of the episode came before the battle started. Jon/Sam, Sam/Aemon and Sam/Gilly were well-acted and written. Overall, an ok episode, but based on how the Night's Watch has been handled this season, I was expecting worse.



I'd be fine with the battle continuing next episode if not for the fact that there are so many storylines to wrap up. It's going to feel overcrowded. The pacing this season has been off and I'm afraid that in episode 10, important events won't get their proper attention. Oh well, at least it wasn't terrible.


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Mance made his position clear, though, that neither he nor his people would be bending the knee to a southern king or obeying their laws. An agreement didn't seem likely to be reached at all.

They were just beginning a possible negotiation when Stannis showed up. That was the whole "are you a true king" thing was all about. If Mance wasn't going to bend the knee and wasn't going to stop attacking the wall, would he have been able to control his people south of the wall. Then boom, Stannis attacks. Which is exactly what that poster described so it's weird that he's all butthurt that the show might turn out to be pretty true to the actual scene.

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The problem for me isn't that there won't be any Stannis looking heroic...the problem is that this was a bad call just in terms of narrative. Now this story has to cut into an already packed episode to conclude the plot of something that should have been finished. It felt like a sudden, oddly disjointed episode. But maybe it's just because we know what happens so that frames how we would want to see episodes done?

This

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yea the battle and its outcome was ridiculous. Really no plausible way that they just didn't get all annihilated.




I wish they would have tied up on HOW they defended the Wall and Castle Black... God damn every scene there were crows getting slaughtered then Ygritte dies then Tormund is surrounded by like 10 crows, game over Wildlings/Thenns.



The build up made it seem Castle Black was going down then 10 crows come down and everything is all good.



I was 100% sure that Stannis would be arriving in some form, ala Tywin in Blackwater... thats why the end was like 'huh?!'



Anyone else feel like this?





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There's no way they can fit Jon's election into the next episode with everything else that has to happen, especially if were getting an off book Jaime/Cersei sex scene as the preview seemed to hint.

Most likely they won't have that this season. It will be next season. Part of his arc or something like that.

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the "unexpected" person north of the wall from the episode 10 description is Jon Snow, whos going to speak with Mance


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