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Stannis is one of my favorite characters, but I don't see how he could have appeared in this episode without rushing the battle. That doesn't mean the cliffhanger didn't suck though.

That said, I wasn't thrilled with the episode. Season 4 hasn't spent much time developing the Night's Watch and the scenes that did take place at the Wall were a mixed bag. I don't see how casual show watchers would care about Pyp and Grenn dying; why couldn't the showrunners have developed some of Jon's buddies instead of pointless Sam/Gilly scenes? Ygritte did noting but massacre people this season and all of her best material happened last season. Her death was ok, but I didn't like that Jon abandoned the battle to cradle her dead body. He's a professional, isn't he? Not some schoolboy. Ygritte's death should have been in the aftermath of the battle.

Blackwater was the culmination of narratives that had been building for the whole season; the Watchers on the Wall did not have the same momentum. The execution was fine, but we can see great battle scenes in any episode. My favorite parts of the episode came before the battle started. Jon/Sam, Sam/Aemon and Sam/Gilly were well-acted and written. Overall, an ok episode, but based on how the Night's Watch has been handled this season, I was expecting worse.

I'd be fine with the battle continuing next episode if not for the fact that there are so many storylines to wrap up. It's going to feel overcrowded. The pacing this season has been off and I'm afraid that in episode 10, important events won't get their proper attention. Oh well, at least it wasn't terrible.

sums up perfectly what I thought about it.

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This exactly.

The battle is over.

Ridiculous. anyone paying any attention knows the wildlings still have the upperhand x1000. they were just scoping things out like Jon said. Stannis will still save the day. Almost seems like some stuff may be pushed into next season though. Tyrion/Tywin possibly??

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Only complaint is that Grenn died, really. The battle felt short, but there's no way to give it the long feel the books had in a single episode.



Why are all the Stans freaking out? He doesn't come until Jon goes to meet them outside the wall.


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God damn, you guys are TOUGH. That was a fucking phenomenal episode. The next one will be absolutely amazing and the Stannis arrival will be even more epic. Settle down you Stannis dick riders. With Stannis saving the day, Tyrion's escape/rampage, dragon rampage, Sandor's "death"/Arya's journey, Bllodraven/children of the forest, and hopefully Lady Stoneheart, next episode will be mind blowing to everyone.


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Also, confirmed D&D are going to make it look like the Night's Watch did all the work and Stannis showed up to take all the glory.

Uh, they did, even in the books. Stannis wouldn't have had a realm to save if the Night's Watch hadn't fought for days on end to keep the Wildlings from breaking the gate. Or did you miss those 3 chapters in the book?

This isn't and never was "The Stannis Show".

Edited by sj4iy

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Sweets have you read the books? not spoiling but well he is not going to kill anyone.

I know that Jon isn't going to kill Mance; but right now that's what he's trying to do, penetrate a force of perhaps hundreds of Wildlings and kill their leader. It might help to have a silent, super-large wolf come along as backup. I don't know why Jon didn't think of it.

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Given the pacing of tonight's episode, I bet Tywin makes it into next season. That sucks!

I think it will be next week. The fact that it's on father's day is too good to pass up.

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Anyone who says that is an idiot. For me, the end cliffhanger was just one of several reasons I felt underwhelmed by the episode.

I don't think he was recovered at all. To me it felt like Jon was going on a suicide mission because he was so grief-stricken

Ah…like some others said too, it didn't sit right with me. The Jon Ygritte felt a bit, er, awkward and he walked out later with Sam and I felt a crickets chirping moment.

Could be me though.

But I love your avatar. Forza Azzurri!

We have a big weekend coming up. LOL! Italia on Saturday….GOT on Sunday.

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They were just beginning a possible negotiation when Stannis showed up. That was the whole "are you a true king" thing was all about. If Mance wasn't going to bend the knee and wasn't going to stop attacking the wall, would he have been able to control his people south of the wall. Then boom, Stannis attacks. Which is exactly what that poster described so it's weird that he's all butthurt that the show might turn out to be pretty true to the actual scene.

Butthurt. Perfect.

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Ridiculous. anyone paying any attention knows the wildlings still have the upperhand x1000. they were just scoping things out like Jon said. Stannis will still save the day. Almost seems like some stuff may be pushed into next season though. Tyrion/Tywin possibly??

Exactly..as Jon said..they will hit them again tomorrow night.

Tywin definitely gets it this season.

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I loved it when Maester Aemon reminisced about his lost love. Made me think of "Egg, I dreamed I was old" - one of the best lines in all the books.

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I just assumed they would allow more than 51 min. for this episodeI was surprised to the the 51 min., but even as the episode closed I thought the whole story could have been packed in... what happened to the extra time promised before, was it season 3?Ep 10 is going to be jam packed, apparently with a VFX budget bigger than this episode.

Exactly had they added the additional time they'll be using in the last episode (65 min) to end this episode properly it would have been an excellent episode. I think it is legitimate most poster have a legitimate complaint about the abruptness of the ending and the lack of Stannis.

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Does this forum have an ignore or block feature? I would really like to not have to see the Stannis fanatics whining all week.


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Yeah, how come we only saw Ghost take one wildling down?

Yeah, I know. I feel embarrassed for Ghost. LOL! He totally took down more than that.

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Looking at how this is probably going to go now, I think it could be a good thing that Jon's election, and Stannis's offer to Jon will come at the beginning of Season 5. That's fairly consequential material. It also means that Jon's tenure as LC will have that much less time to have fill up to bridge to how his Season 5 arc will end. It might come out feeling more tightly plotted than it otherwise might be.


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99% of comments in the TV threads are whining about a change from the books. D&D did NOT change the sequence from the books for this episode... Stannis shows up later, after the first attack on the Wall, when Jon has gone to parlay with Mance. Now 99% of the comments about this episode are whining that D&D followed the books?

I thought it was an excellent episode. I particularly liked Aemon's chat with Sam, Slynt being a wussy, seeing Ghost again, and Ollie's little nod at Jon after he killed the woman who killed his father.

Sheesh let Jon have his moment, just like in the books. Stannis will get his later, just like in the books.

Was Jon's moment when he was like "we're fooked, I'm going to go give up and talk to Mance and kill him without a sword because we're sooooo fooked"?

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People defending the episode are saying the battle would have had to be rushed. The episode was like 45 minutes long and the actual battle didn't start until halfway thru it. But I'm sure multiple Gilly scenes, Jon and Sam and Aemon talking about love and just the overall preparation took a large portion of the episode.

Maybe if they spared us a good 15-20 minutes of Grey Worm/Missandei and Tyrion talking about the beetle crushing moron they could have for in 15 minutes of preparation at the Wall that took up so much of the episode.

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Stannis is getting played down because with all the huge stuff happening next week no one is even going to give a shit about the fight at the wall. As far as tv watchers are concerned the battle is over and won, the wildlings lost.

I gave up all hope.

Probably Jon Snow will be almost reaching an understanding with Mance when Stannis heavy cavalry shows up and starts killing women and children like some sort of Wonded Knee, while Jon screams "Noooo!"

Edited by Señor de la Tormenta

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